mindfulness of mental images

[francogrex]

I have read a lot on mindfulness and mindfulness meditation. The most "popular" form of mindfulness meditation seems to be the awareness of the breathing. But I find that difficult to achieve as I am unable to "feel" my breath especially the outgoing breath through the nostrils, and hence when I sit to meditate I feel frustrated then I direct my awareness to that frustration which by itself becomes some sort of mindfulness... but that's not what I really want. I find that if I sit, close my eyes and look at the "mental screen" in front of me, I become aware of "mental images": that is visual imaginations of past events, my current settings, future imaginations etc... sometimes those images are clear sometimes they are subtle. I find that if I direct my focus and awareness on those mental images I am able to achieve better mindfulness... I label briefly what mental image I am having in front of me like: "now I am seeing this and that..." etc... do you think this is a useful mindfulness practice? is it as good as mindfulness of the breathing?

[rara]

Two answers for you

1) I mentioned in another thread too...jumping the gun is easy with breath meditations. You can't feel the sensations because you are already distracted. Already aware of the issues, hence the frustration that inevitably comes.

So, work on phase 1. Just count your breaths. If you can get to 10 without a thought getting in the way, 2 hours have probably already passed in your meditation haha.

2) Your question about the mental images. I was trying to fully understand where you are with this but I'm not 100% sure from your description. Are you running some sort of commentary with ehat you see in front of you? That is all well and good but if the images are just popping up and you are identifying them, this is not mindfulness. You are simply following the distracrion.

So concentrate on counting breaths and see what happens. Mental images popping up, still notice them and be aware that they are there, but then let them pass. Simply just keep your focus on your breath as step 1. That will keep you busy

[Gareth]

Can you feel your belly rising and falling, or your chest expanding?

[JonW]

As Gareth says, the rising and falling of the belly, and the expansion of the chest are as useful as anchors as the feeling of the breath on the nostrils.
As for mental images…if you're too attached to thoughts about the past or future during formal meditation, then you're not in the present. I guess the "trick" is to see that these are only fleeting thoughts and they are happening right now. If thoughts about the past or future are believed and clung on to, then this is not mindfulness practice.
Only my opinion though.
Good things,
Jon

[francogrex]

2) Your question about the mental images. I was trying to fully understand where you are with this but I'm not 100% sure from your description. Are you running some sort of commentary with ehat you see in front of you? That is all well and good but if the images are just popping up and you are identifying them, this is not mindfulness. You are simply following the distracrion.

We are breathing all the time yet we are most of the time not aware that we are breathing. Our mind is generating thoughts all the time (including mental images) yet most of the time we are not aware of those: we get pulled into them and mindlessly get absorbed into their content. It is surprising that you find awareness of thoughts, including mental images, similar to distraction! Distraction is mindless while awareness is mindful. One can be mindfully aware of a hundred things occuring in the moment other than the breath.

[JonW]

"One can be mindfully aware of a hundred things occuring in the moment other than the breath."
That would mean being mindfully aware of 101 things occurring in a single moment. How is that possible?
During formal meditation, practicing choiceness awareness, I might focus on the breath or the sound of a bird chirping or the scent of the flowers in the vase, but not all at once.
If I'm mindfully washing-up, I might focus on the sensation of warm water on my hands, the whiteness of the plate, the texture of the fork, but not all at once.
If I tried to focus on all those things at once, it would feel like a sensory overload.
My reading of Rara's post is that what's being referred to is identification with content of thoughts rather than simply noticing that thoughts are occurring. Not the same things at all.
All best, Jon, Hove

[piedwagtail91]

"I become aware of "mental images": that is visual imaginations of past events, my current settings, future imaginations etc... sometimes those images are clear sometimes they are subtle. I find that if I direct my focus and awareness on those mental images I am able to achieve better mindfulness."

if you're noticing those images and letting them go and moving onto another sensation thats ok.
but if you're meditating on those images and watching them develop then it's not mindfulness, thats lost in thought (visual thought?) future images are of things that probably won't happen, letting go of those and also of past images is the best thing to do.
just be present as jon describes in his post.

[francogrex]

All of you here posting in the beginners section must read and learn more because your knowledge is very basic. This video is a good start: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14b5jLNWtWs

[JonW]

Yes. Knowledge has a tendency to be basic at a beginner's stage. It goes with the territory.
I watched the video. That guy's approach seems unnecessarily overcomplicated to me. Jon Kabat-Zinn and others explain the meditation practice far more directly and succinctly.
Jon, Hove

[piedwagtail91]

I would prefer beginners mind. One of the seven pillars.
mindfulness isn't that complicated and doesn't need to be.
as jon says the video makes things sound complicated.

i think it's also quite wrong to make assumptions as to peoples knowledge of mindfulness based on posts in beginners.

the most knowledgeable people can communicate with people on all levels without blinding anyone with gobbledegook, thats why answers are easy enough for anyone to understand.
they don't convey a lack of knowledge and understanding, just a wish to help others in what can be quite a tricky thing to understand for those just starting out in mindfulness.