Meditation is not what you think.

[BronteFan]

I've just finished meditation is not what you think. I really enjoyed it. I'll reflect & write a more considered response to what I thought about it tomorrow.

[BronteFan]

I'm very sorry I'm a bit later than I said with my considered response to my thoughts about this book but I've been busy.

I found this book very deep, informative, thought-provoking & interesting. I expected him to answer some of the questions I asked but he didn't answer anything in a way I'd have expected. He did give the answers but not in a straight-forward way. Meditation happened to be what I thought it was in 1 way though in other ways it wasn't. It was much broader than that & although I didn't get into meditation because of the religious connotations, it incorporates them although you don't have to be religious to meditate. Like Eric stated the title "Meditation is not what you think." meant that meditation was what you do & a way of being too. I think 1 of Jon Kabat-Zin's points was that to know what meditation is you have to actually get on with doing it & experience it for yourself rather than intellectualising everything. Some things that everyone is familiar with get harder to define the more familiar we are with them too. For example, most people know what a horse is but it is much easier to show someone a horse than define or describe 1. Even books on horses for adults are full of pictures to facilitate this process. I mean it's easy to say things like "Horses are members of the equine or equidae family of animals. The scientific name of the modern horse is equus caballus. The modern horse has 66 chromosomes & is a herbivorous quadruped.". It's also easy to state their role in history but it's very hard to actually describe or define 1. I think the same could be said of meditation. It's very easy to show people how to meditate but very hard to define meditation which I think was 1 of Jon's points. I think another point was that we only understand things by what goes on inside our heads & in order to understand concepts like meditation we have to look to the social construction of language which can be interpreted in different ways but then some people over-intellectualise everything rather than just doing things. Most things are socially constructed though.

[JonW]

Thanks Ann,
Excellent points.
Kabat-Zinn is making the point that the concepts underlying mindfulness are very simple to grasp but this is an experiential practice. Grasping the concepts alone isn't going to do anyone an awful lot of good. It's about practice.
I often use the example of teaching someone to swim. If I invite them round to my house, invite them to lie down on an ironing board and show them the various swimming strokes, they will grasp the concept of swimming, but those concepts won't be much good to them if they fall in the sea. They need to learn to swim in water.
To learn to meditate, we need to meditate.
In his 8-week courses, which he started in 1979, Kabat-Zinn recommends 45 minutes of home practice six days a week, for the duration of the course. That might sound like a lot but it's geared towards helping people properly ground themselves in mindfulness practice. The people I teach sometimes say to me that they don't have that much time in the day. In which case, they need to make the time. If they are serious about cultivating a regular practice.
In time, it becomes clear that the actual sitting is the practice and the rest of the day is the meditation. In other words, we learn to fold mindfulness into our everyday lives. To do this, we need to practice.
All good things,
Jon

[Gareth]

Thanks Ann,
the concepts underlying mindfulness are very simple to grasp but this is an experiential practice. Grasping the concepts alone isn't going to do anyone an awful lot of good. It's about practice.
All good things,
Jon

Everyday/every day mindfulness.

[BronteFan]

Thanks Ann,
Excellent points.
Kabat-Zinn is making the point that the concepts underlying mindfulness are very simple to grasp but this is an experiential practice. Grasping the concepts alone isn't going to do anyone an awful lot of good. It's about practice.
I often use the example of teaching someone to swim. If I invite them round to my house, invite them to lie down on an ironing board and show them the various swimming strokes, they will grasp the concept of swimming, but those concepts won't be much good to them if they fall in the sea. They need to learn to swim in water.
To learn to meditate, we need to meditate.
In his 8-week courses, which he started in 1979, Kabat-Zinn recommends 45 minutes of home practice six days a week, for the duration of the course. That might sound like a lot but it's geared towards helping people properly ground themselves in mindfulness practice. The people I teach sometimes say to me that they don't have that much time in the day. In which case, they need to make the time. If they are serious about cultivating a regular practice.
In time, it becomes clear that the actual sitting is the practice and the rest of the day is the meditation. In other words, we learn to fold mindfulness into our everyday lives. To do this, we need to practice.
All good things,
Jon

You're welcome, Jon.

Thank you very much. I thought I said something to that effect. I meant to, anyway. I meant to say what I really thought earlier but things came up. I didn't want to say too much. I had some more examples but didn't want to over-load everyone. I also got to a point where I owed people answers & was expected to give some people very good answers as they wouldn't stand for me acting daft so I rushed my answers to get everything done. I've got a lazy eye for which I had squint surgery as a girl. 1 of my eyes still does a lot more work than the other. This means that sometimes I miss things & sometimes I miss things at 1 time & catch them at others. I got your point. I tried to make that self-same point when I said to know what meditation is you've got to meditate & used the equine example to illustrate that sometimes people can't define/describe simple things because they're too familiar with them. I was going to mention axioms in there too but decided not to.

I also got that message. I don't think that's a lot. I practice 1 hr. a day. I have lots of time because I don't watch much T.V. I normally read, write, type, sew or paint instead.

I recall you saying something to me about that before.

[BronteFan]

Thanks Ann,
the concepts underlying mindfulness are very simple to grasp but this is an experiential practice. Grasping the concepts alone isn't going to do anyone an awful lot of good. It's about practice.
All good things,
Jon

Everyday/every day mindfulness.

I agree. I would like your post if there was a like button. :0)