Yoga, etc

[1Daveatatime]

Hi everyone,

It's me again. Please let me know, really, if you feel like I'm over-participating in this forum with too many questions and concerns. 1daveatatime@gmail.com.

So, my question this time is in regards to the meditative yoga that I've been doing by following JKZ's MBSR course via the "Full Catastrophe Living" book. I've been at the yoga, every other day, for a little over two weeks now. I am having difficulty with it. It is much more difficult than I had imagined, and seems to be getting increasingly hard to do rather than easier. I like that I'm doing something positive for my body, but I basically hate it *during* the actual practice, and my ability to focus is much worse than with the body scan or sitting meditation. It seems my mind wants to escape and/or eschew the whole process while I'm in it, and reeling it back to awareness is hard, if not impossible, sometimes.

I am guessing this gets easier with practice? I suppose I was sort of looking for 'permission' to stop doing it entirely. But maybe what I ought to do is just take it down a notch during, and not hold the poses as long when they are feeling too intense (just like he says during the guided MP3s). I do have some medical problems and may have overdone the yoga last night, when I got home pretty late, while over tired. I ended up feeling really sick all day today, possibly partially due to that.

So, okay, I may have just answered one of my own questions there. But has anyone else had the experience of meditative yoga not feeling especially meditative? I can get really *in* it, sometimes, with sitting and body scan, but never (yet) with yoga.

I am really grateful to this forum as it provides the only sense of fellowship with this that I have yet to find, though I think I'm going to go to a mindful group meditation Oct 3rd in the city, yay!

Dave

[JonW]

Hi Dave,
You're most welcome to ask as many questions as you like.
Regards the yoga/mindful movement element, it's not something that I ever connected with. So I dropped it from my practice shortly after completing the 8-week course. Doesn't seem to have done me any harm.
Occasionally I do a body scan but my daily practice basically consists of sitting meditation.
My opinion, and it's only my opinion, is that every practice will be unique and that everyone will calibrate a practice that suits them. If that means dropping the yoga, so be it.
I'd be interested to hear other views on this though.
If you're not quite ready to give up the mindful movement and you're looking for a book to guide you with that practice I'd recommend the following…
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mindfulness-Yog ... lness+yoga
All best,
Jon

[piedwagtail91]

hi dave
i've asked my small group i'm leading to follow this yoga for their first week of movement practice http://www.whitecloudwellness.com/

i'm not a yoga teacher though i do an hours practice a day, so i suppose you could say i find it ok!
you really need a live class or good video, preferably a class at first, to practice yoga.
i've listened to instructions and found them wanting.

one of the first things in yoga is ahimsa or do no harm.don't try too hard.
when using yoga as mindful movement it's not the range of movement that's important, it's being aware of, or feeling the sensations in your body and how they change as you hold the posture.

i know it's JKZ but trying to do yoga from pictures or soundtrack is or can be, i feel, dangerous.
a good teacher can tell you how to do it correctly and safely, if you're new to yoga then chances are you won't know a safe way into or out of a posture. a picture showing beginning and end is not enough.

it doesn't have to be yoga, some people i know use tai chi or shibashi.
someone i'm guiding on this course doesn't have much range of movement so we're just doing simple straightforward movement, simple arm raises to the front and sides.
you can twiddle your thumbs mindfully!
it's about the sensations and developing awareness of them.
yoga shouldn't hurt, you should just 'feel' the sensations.
don't try too hard, respect your body, if it hurts you're either doing it wrong or you're going into the posture too deeply.
this was the sequence i guided my group through, around page 7 https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0xZJRC0367VSjcyMmF1YUtYUXc/edit
the stick men are there to give them an idea of what was planned but i told them to watch the videos at home.although they're basic movements they can still do harm if done incorrectly, that was why i asked them to follow a video.
i've added that link to my notes show how simple mindful movement can be.

take things easy, be kind and respect your body.
mick

[Gareth]

It's me again. Please let me know, really, if you feel like I'm over-participating in this forum with too many questions and concerns.

Not in the slightest. We are here to help and we expect nothing in return. The questions that you have will be the same as countless other people. I know that there are people that read the forum and benefit from the answers that are given to people, so ask away.

Firstly I need to say that yoga is hard. I have been practising for a couple of years now and I still feel like a beginner; I think I'll always be a beginner, and that's the point. It's not something that should be a punishment, and if you really dislike doing it, then I can't see that it will be doing you much good.

Like Jon, I started out with just sitting meditation, I used to find the body-scan insanely difficult, and I didn't do it much. I realised that my mindfulness of body was quite poor, so I enrolled in a yoga class. My mindfulness of body is still poor, but I'm learning, and I actually really like the yoga class. Maybe you should try out a class first and then make your mind up. The practice is very personal, and there are other ways that you can incorporate mindful movement.

[1Daveatatime]

Thanks, again, everyone, as always, for being so open and nice and thoughtful with your responses.

I think, for now, after I take at least another day off (from yoga, but not from meditating) because I'm still not feeling well, I will try to do a less strenuous version of JKZ's yoga. Before starting those, I did watch some MBSR yoga videos I found online to see that I am doing them correctly. I'm gonna try taking it a bit easier. And I'm also going to check out those resources you all linked to, for sure.

And a followup question. When I do my sitting meditations, I am doing them in my computer chair, keeping my back straight. I am NOT used to sitting quite so upright, and it's taking some getting used to. But I am (amazingly to myself) often able to focus on where it feels intense, and open to it and just experience it, and that weirdly makes it hurt less or not at all, just like JKZ said it would. However, part of me feels like I'm "cheating" or something since I'm not on the floor on a cushion. That is probably a bit of perfectionism tomfoolery, right? But I do kind of want to graduate to a cushion at some point. There's gotta be a reason people meditate on cushions, isn't there?

Much gratitude,
Dave

[Matt Y]

Hi Dave,

Yes, perfectionism tomfoolery it is! Sitting in a chair is perfectly fine. Posture - when it comes to meditation - is often over-emphasised. It's really not that critical. What's most important is that you are relatively comfortable. Sitting ramrod straight isn't going to help. You don't want to have to fight with your body during meditation. Better, that it's an ally. Chairs usually have backs - you can use them!

You might not look like the perfect image of a meditator sitting on a chair, but you'll probably be a lot calmer, and you won't damage your knees in the process.

There is something (grounding) about sitting on the floor / cushion, but if you choose this option you do need to take a bit more care. A meditation stool is probably a good transitional phase (and these are great: http://www.blackdragonseats.com.au)

Firstly, you MUST have your knees below your hips, and you should be able to sit without any strain in your lower back. You'll probably need a couple of cushions, or a really high one, to be able to do this passably well (unless you're an accomplished yogi). As far as cushions go, in my opinion, there's nothing better than these: http://www.sunandmoonoriginals.com/stor ... shion.html

But, personally, I wouldn't be in any rush to 'graduate' to the cushion. I like to say that the reason ancient meditators sat on the floor was simply because they didn't have chairs!

Matt.

[Gareth]

Just so you know. I've been meditating for over four years, and I have never used a cushion.

[piedwagtail91]

i like the cushion or stool but recently i've been meditating in a yoga posture, inverted lake , viparita karani or legs up the wall!
i found this a great posture and the only one where i can lie down without too much mind wander or falling asleep.

[Steve]

I did some yoga as part of my 8 week mindfulness course (a few years ago). I enjoyed learning that yoga is a form of meditation. I found just simple poses, eg just the 'mountain posture' (standing tall and strong and dignified yet relaxed) or simple arms stretches (eg upwards, forwards, backwards) are the best place to start. You want to find that position where you are just (gently) stretching a little more than usual but not too much and hold it for just a little longer than your mind tells you (but no more). Listen (ie feel) to what your body is telling you and don't over do it. I found this all excellent practice at becoming aware of what my mind wanted me to do and learning how to choose whether and when to release from a position rather than simply 'obeying' the mind - all good mindfulness practice!

For anything more then very simple poses/stretches, join a class so an experienced teacher can guide you and make sure you don't over do it. Watching and copying the moves/postures of others is also a great way of helping you get it right (and a great way to practice empathy).

Mind and body are intimately connected so yoga adds another dimension to being mindful and helps get you back into contact with your senses.

Steve