getting off psyche meds.

[Michael_79]

Hi guy,
How is it today?
On my side of the story, I have been alternating between depressive and anxiety phases since I was a young teen. I started AD something like 10 years ago, I tried many different but without much success in treating the symptoms of depression neither anxiety. The only moments I felt a "positive" effect of the AD was when I was switching from one medication to another, I felt stoned during three weeks and was not ruminating much during that time. But after this adaptation period, nothing was better. I have also been following many years of CBT, but without much success neither.

I started a long and deep down, the deepest I ever had I believe, at the end of the 2013 summer. I was still in the depth of depression in February of this year. The only escape route I was seeing at that moment was suicide. I went really close to it, the only thing refraining me was the idea of hurting my family. My therapist mentioned once mindfulness as an alternative to CBT and I decided to give it a chance. I also started a new AD treatment (quetiapine). I was considering it as my last try. If nothing was better after 6 months, I would go away.

The effects of meditation were fast. I learned to identify and not getting sucked in some recurring patterns of thoughts ending up in rumination. After a month or so of practicing daily, I managed in getting slowly out of the abyss of rumination. I stopped daily use of weed and alcohol. I became less afraid of socially interacting. I felt less stupid. My depressive symptoms really decreased but at the expense of anxiety that boomed up to levels and frequencies I rarely encountered before. I managed slowly in accepting better the anxiety and to live with it.

But but but...despite all the improvement and my efforts to be mindful and accepting things as they are, I feel like I am slowly getting back to depression. Everything started back some weeks ago by physical symptoms, that popped out of nowhere I can identify. Waking up one morning with an head-ear-throat ache, overwhelming sadness and slow working brain that were typical from my previous depressive periods. Ok, accepting and embracing it, one day, two days...oh great it is away. I was so happy I made such progress. It would have been the start of a long depressive periods if it had happened a year earlier. But then at the beginning of this week, the physical symptoms are back, the bombarding negative thoughts are omnipresent. I try to handle them with mindfulness but I am really afraid to fall back.

Well, sorry to have strayed from the AD topic. But I need to talk, listen and be listened to by someone who knows depression, AD and mindfulness. As I mentioned earlier, I started a new treatment at the same moment that I begin mindfulness. I am almost 100% convinced that the improvements in my well-being, even if it is a bit difficult at the moment, are related to mindfulness rather than the AD. I was decided some weeks ago to try stopping the medication but now that I am on the edge of falling back, I think it is not the right time.

[piedwagtail91]

I agree. Now wouldn't be a good time to cut back. Try to see them maybe not as a friend but not as an enemy. You sound depressed but also very aware.
That's good.
I know it's difficult but when you wake up in the morning with all the symptoms try if you can to see them as sensations in your body. see if it's possible to let the thoughts about this being another depressive episode go. use the sensations as a focus and try to explore them. I know it's difficult to do that but if you can it can help break the cycle and possible downward spiral.
From reading your story you've come a long way.
moving away from thoughts of killing yourself when its all there is left takes some doing.
putting your story on the forum couldn't have been easy.
All these things are progress.
The' same old symptoms' when you wake can be frightening. But they don't mean you're heading downhill. They just mean you don't feel too good when you wake. The rest is thought. and they can be pretty convincing.
Don't be too hard on yourself. You've done a lot of positive things. coming off weed and drink do take some real effort.
These are all positive things that you've done and deserve real credit for.
The thoughts will try to insist they're facts. Your situation is different now to what it was, because of all the positive work you've done. even if you do feel the symptoms are the same, you're in a different position and more experienced. That alone can change the outcome.
Keep in touch.
mick

[Michael_79]

Thanks mick, your message cheers me up

[piedwagtail91]

Thanks. I know every little helps. Question the thoughts when they come. If they're not a fact they'll fade. But above all be kind to yourself.

[guy]

Thanks too mick for that post. Its of great use to me too at the moment. I 'm so glad youre on the forum as you really understand this aspect of it and youre prepared to use your time and effort in this way.
I also feel that, having got into mindfulness, even though it all seems a very different experience and far from effective, there must be deep down a sort of mechanism that's grinding away down there and will eventually show through.
I like the idea of trying to see feelings as bodily sensations when they come and then trying to deal with those by bringing the breath and attention to them. When youre numb it can be hard but it must be possible.
All the best to you
Guy

[piedwagtail91]

It is difficult. Just pick the most dominant sensation and explore that. Don't try all of them!
doing that can help stop the thoughts building and building.
self compassion and kindness are things to allow yourself when it gets tough.
choosing one sensation makes it manageable. It changes it from something that can feel so big it blocks out the sun to something you can' hold' in awareness and explore.
Give yourself time.
Be kind.
mick

[pollyfielding]

Hi, It sounds to me like you have done really well, despite the set back. Intentionality eventually becomes reality if you persevere. I would advise enlisting your GP's help to slowly help to wean you off one med at a time. Be compassionate to your self in the process & with setbacks - you deserve kindness! I used to speak to myself so harshly that I would have been locked up if I'd said some of the same things to others. I was on a bunch of meds that mindfulness enabled me eventually, over time, to drop. You are on a good path. I hope that helps a little. I wish you peace & happiness. Polly

[guy]

Dear Polly. thankyou so much for that reply[quote=" . Intentionality eventually becomes reality if you persevere. [/quote] I really liked that thought because in the midst of all this the temptation is to leave it all aside as you don't notice any benefits.
So you go through the motions anyway and hang on. That seems to be at the core of the practise really, not expecting change and results, just being with whatever is there.
Im very encouraged that you managed to get off meds eventually because ive been finding out just how hard it can be from various forums. In the short term im just needing to get stable and think to the future later and do things in a very slow and measured way.
Your post has touched me and I thank you for taking the time.
Guy

[Michael_79]

Hi guy,

How it going? Are you going forward with mindfulness? I just would like to hear some news from your side.

Cheers,
Michael

[guy]

Sorry to have been out of touch for so long. I went through an horrific withdrawal (although I reinstated almost straight away) and its taken until now to arrive at a feeling or stability, such is the power of these drugs.
What im doing now is a very slow, careful taper (the sort that most medics would laugh at) that will take me a couple of years if I am lucky, to become med free. But its the only way, as ive learned to my cost and so have countless others. That's whats so useful about internet forums; you get anecdotal evidence, the type not recognised by the health professionals, and this evidence (well sifted through) leads to the way to go. So called evidence based stuff can be so deceitful and take so many years to come to any conclusions.
So I found a brilliant website called survivingantidepressants.org and as its so big, you get answers and dialogue very quickly. From that ive been able to work out the best path for me to take and get back up and support for it. Mindfulness is quite evident amongst that lot too, a you might expect from an outfit determined to get off chemicals.
Over this period ive not been able to live a very mindful existence because you do need a certain calmness of mind to do it, and anyone who has been through the depths will certainly know that the mind is all over the place for a while, like a small explosion has disabled it.
But I did continue going through the motions, especially the guided bodyscan, and now I feel more able to devote more time and effort to the practise as a whole.
Slightly off subject, I have done lots of reading and searching of late about depression. I remember in mark Williams book how he describes the massive increase in depression over the last few decades. He doesn't go into the whys and wherefores but I can say with certainty from my point of view, that its caused by the drugs in nearly all cases. People with depression are offered chemical 'solutions' that at first seem to do something............until you try to get off. Then the withdrawal is interpreted as relapse to the old condition and so youre advised to go back on (maybe a bigger dose, maybe another drug. This can go on for years.
But if you scroll back to pre medication days, depression was mainly a one off experience and after months or at most a year most people got out of it naturally and never had a reoccurance.
So nowadays people get trapped in a never ending merrygoround (great for the drug companies) of taking pills, most of which are of no more value than placebos and which unlike placebos have side effects which are disabling.
So this is the position I think I got myself into and all I can do is claw my way back. One of these days it will all come out as a massive scandal that has caused untold harm. It just seems so obvious to me now that this is the reason for the massive increase in mental illness (I used to think it was just the crazy changing pace of life)
So that's what makes practises like mindfulness so vital. You get people on it as a first port of call. GPs often want to see patients get out of the obvious suffering as quickly as possible; and pill will do that for a while. But in the long run its these meditative practises which are the overall winner. And you want to get into it without the hindrance of these drugs in you. That's why ive found it so difficult. I couldn't feel emotion due to the numbing effect of drugs. You want to go into mindfulness with all cylinders firing if at all possible.
Anyway ,as I said that's a bit out of the remit of this site, but there may be people like me who want to either reduce or get off and it certainly is possible with time and patience, and hopefully without much pain in the process. Never ever cold turkey or even think in terms of weeks. The internet is full of people suffering years down the line who were too impatient or who sadly had faith in their doctor's ideas or withdrawal. It hardly ever works.
Anyway its a long hard climb ahead me but its good to know that mindfulness is probably the ultimate (or only) solution.