I first got in touch a few months ago having the ambition to use mindfulness to replace the psyche meds I have been on for too long. I eventually found what appeared to be a good time a few months ago. I had previously found that using lots of meditation to counter the rumination of depression drastically shortened the period of suffering and that the whole spell was nothing like as severe as in previous bouts. So that was an encouragement for starters.
I talked it over with my GP and tapered one of the 3 pills I take. I had no withdrawal which was good and the drug leaves your body in about 3 days of the last dose. So that was over about 5 weeks. Then I went though a period of being without the drug and I gradually felt I was emerging from the pushing down effect of the med. Thoughts and actions were more clear and spontaneous and I generally felt very well mentally. We decided that as I felt fine there was little point in reducing the other stuff at this point.
Then 3 weeks ago I began to go down in mood and plummeted. I guess I had been off it for 10 weeks and I assumed that my brain couldn't do without it. It was a real panic and massive disappointment. Especially as my meditations and mindful living didn't seem to be helping as much this time.
Then I remembered that back in the end of July I had had a very severe infection having drunk water from a stream while camping. There followed 6 days of nothing at all staying in my system. I realised that the other pills I take had probably washed through me so that in effect I was doing cold turkey on drugs that can have nasty withdrawal for some people. So when I mentioned this to my GP he agreed that it probably was the case.
So now im in the frustrating position of not knowing for sure if I had kicked the habit or not. Im back on all 3 now cos the depressive thing has really taken over at the moment. The idea is to stabalise and then try again in a few weeks. im desperate to get off them as if feels a half life at present, yet being in a family situation you have to think of t he effect upon partners who have to watch you suffering by experimenting.
Anyway I notice that the above isn't really kept to the subject of mindfulness, except to say that I practice every day and sometimes meditate for hours. I know that some good must come out of that and keep reminding myself that I musnt expect results,
just keep doing it.
It would be good to compare notes with any others battling it and wish you well if you are. Guy
getting off psyche meds.
I don't have any experience of mindfulness in these cirumstances, but my thoughts are with you.
Maybe Mick or one of the others can give you some advice here. I'm moving the topic to hopefully get you more replies.
Maybe Mick or one of the others can give you some advice here. I'm moving the topic to hopefully get you more replies.
I think that this topic is a bit irrelevant for mindfulness really. ive found another forum called surviving anti-depressants that is more useful in this case. But I still see that the practice of mindfulness is a winner in the long run. Just that I need to deal with the pressing problem of facing drugs and how to get off them. I just don't think I have the sensitivity for mindfulness while I remain on them.
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piedwagtail91
- Posts: 613
- Practice Mindfulness Since: 0- 3-2011
- Location: Lancashire witch country
sorry i thought i'd posted a reply to this a few days ago, must never have left my phone.
mindfulness can help.
i found that not seeing the meds as an enemy but a short term aid helped me a lot.
i had 25 years of them.
you've tasted what life is like without them.
i know in my case it felt a lot better. i was able to think and feel again. feel whole.
but just like a toddler keeps falling down after taking a few steps, so coming off meds can be like that.
it may take a few attempts, but each time you'll learn something.
mindfulness can help you see it as a learning experience and not as a failure.
theres no way 10 weeks was failure.
don't rush or strive, wait until you 'feel' the time is right to try again, mindfulness can help there, accepting that thats how things are now , helping you accept that it's not always going to be that way.
when you start to cut down, see a reduction as a success, don't beat yourself up thinking how far there is still to go.
rushing can cause a setback, only cut down when you're in a stable mood again.
don't give yourself a hard time, mood swings will be a a common thing when you do cut down, mindfulness can help you cope there.
don't try to force yourself off the meds, or set a date when you 'must be off them' i tried it and it didn't work for me nor several others i've met since.
taking a compassionate and mindful approach is something both i and several others have found works in the long run.
i've had over three years without them now and have been and am going through stressful times, but i've not had the need to go back to them.
mindfulness can help you get off and stay off, but don't rush.
the seven pillars are good guidelines when you're up against this sort of thing.
good luck, don't give up.
check out your thoughts, question them, are they facts or are they thoughts that you can let go?
http://allansousa.wordpress.com/2010/06/08/the-seven-pillars-of-mindfulness/
mindfulness can help.
i found that not seeing the meds as an enemy but a short term aid helped me a lot.
i had 25 years of them.
you've tasted what life is like without them.
i know in my case it felt a lot better. i was able to think and feel again. feel whole.
but just like a toddler keeps falling down after taking a few steps, so coming off meds can be like that.
it may take a few attempts, but each time you'll learn something.
mindfulness can help you see it as a learning experience and not as a failure.
theres no way 10 weeks was failure.
don't rush or strive, wait until you 'feel' the time is right to try again, mindfulness can help there, accepting that thats how things are now , helping you accept that it's not always going to be that way.
when you start to cut down, see a reduction as a success, don't beat yourself up thinking how far there is still to go.
rushing can cause a setback, only cut down when you're in a stable mood again.
don't give yourself a hard time, mood swings will be a a common thing when you do cut down, mindfulness can help you cope there.
don't try to force yourself off the meds, or set a date when you 'must be off them' i tried it and it didn't work for me nor several others i've met since.
taking a compassionate and mindful approach is something both i and several others have found works in the long run.
i've had over three years without them now and have been and am going through stressful times, but i've not had the need to go back to them.
mindfulness can help you get off and stay off, but don't rush.
the seven pillars are good guidelines when you're up against this sort of thing.
good luck, don't give up.
check out your thoughts, question them, are they facts or are they thoughts that you can let go?
http://allansousa.wordpress.com/2010/06/08/the-seven-pillars-of-mindfulness/
Many thanks Mick for your reply, you seem to be the person on the forum who has great experience to fall back on and give wise advice.
Im sure that all you say is true. Im panicking a bit at the moment as I know how bad depression can get and your post has made me try gently to pick up on the wisdom that's in mindfulness. over the months ive been relying mainly on sitting, breathing practice, bodyscans and mindful walking. The actual minute to minute living type hasn't made such a big effect on me. But last time this happened (not meds related) I got so much help from sitting as it cut out the rumination that I was doing and the depression passed in a short time, and was far less painful. This time im not really connecting when I attend to my breath and let thoughts come and go. Its as if theres so much confusion and noise up there that it wont work. Im not giving up though. I have a lot of time on my hands at present and will continue to try.
Also, what has been an eye opener to me the last few days is seeing what a mess ADs can do. Theres a whole mass of testimony out there and the advice conflicts big time with the medical profession. Tapering drugs over a very long period seems to be vital to prevent painful withdrawal and the package im on means that its going to be a long time. GPs are very lacking in knowledge of peoples real life experience of these drugs. However, I don't care about the timescale if its really going to work, but I did get a bit freaked about withdrawal.
Weve got a good MIND place here and I feel the need to get support from them, theryre into mindfulness too and seem to have the right attitude.
Again, thanks so much for taking the time
Guy
Im sure that all you say is true. Im panicking a bit at the moment as I know how bad depression can get and your post has made me try gently to pick up on the wisdom that's in mindfulness. over the months ive been relying mainly on sitting, breathing practice, bodyscans and mindful walking. The actual minute to minute living type hasn't made such a big effect on me. But last time this happened (not meds related) I got so much help from sitting as it cut out the rumination that I was doing and the depression passed in a short time, and was far less painful. This time im not really connecting when I attend to my breath and let thoughts come and go. Its as if theres so much confusion and noise up there that it wont work. Im not giving up though. I have a lot of time on my hands at present and will continue to try.
Also, what has been an eye opener to me the last few days is seeing what a mess ADs can do. Theres a whole mass of testimony out there and the advice conflicts big time with the medical profession. Tapering drugs over a very long period seems to be vital to prevent painful withdrawal and the package im on means that its going to be a long time. GPs are very lacking in knowledge of peoples real life experience of these drugs. However, I don't care about the timescale if its really going to work, but I did get a bit freaked about withdrawal.
Weve got a good MIND place here and I feel the need to get support from them, theryre into mindfulness too and seem to have the right attitude.
Again, thanks so much for taking the time
Guy
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piedwagtail91
- Posts: 613
- Practice Mindfulness Since: 0- 3-2011
- Location: Lancashire witch country
hi guy
don't let all the info on the internet dominate your thoughts about meds.
some of it is true but not all.
don't see them as something to be rid of asap it won't help.
right now you need them just as you'd need a stick or crutch for a broken leg.
just as most people don't need those forever then with meds it can be the same.
you've come off it once and gained a lot of experience in the process.
the more you allow yourself to be with your negative thoughts and then panic about the severity of depression the more likely you'll be to end up there - sorry but thats how it works.
don't give up on the meditation.
you said you've a lot of time on your hands, can you use that wisely?
going with a walking group, bike rides or possible volunteer work?
something to give you a sense of purpose and improve your sense of self worth. they're usually the first things to go with depression.
when you're depressed everything is difficult and the 'can't be bothered' or 'whats the point' thoughts dominate.
that's the time you need to do something, meditate, walk mindfully. running, swimming.
even brushing your teeth - mindfully, fully aware can help break the negative thought cycle.
don't feel you have to stick with one 'type' of mindful activity (meditating). anything can be done mindfully and will help break that rumination.
i'm not selling anything but this is a link to my session notes that i'm using on a course with friends, if you like then have a read there may just be something in there that can help. https://sites.google.com/site/mindfulraisin/interactive-session-handout
the full 8 sessions are there all linked to online videos, they too can help.
they're not perfect but my small group are finding them very helpful and informative.
don't give up, there are lots of very experienced people on here waiting to help.
you're NOT alone in this, keep coming back for support, tell it as it is and i'm sure we'll all help all we can.
mick
don't let all the info on the internet dominate your thoughts about meds.
some of it is true but not all.
don't see them as something to be rid of asap it won't help.
right now you need them just as you'd need a stick or crutch for a broken leg.
just as most people don't need those forever then with meds it can be the same.
you've come off it once and gained a lot of experience in the process.
the more you allow yourself to be with your negative thoughts and then panic about the severity of depression the more likely you'll be to end up there - sorry but thats how it works.
don't give up on the meditation.
you said you've a lot of time on your hands, can you use that wisely?
going with a walking group, bike rides or possible volunteer work?
something to give you a sense of purpose and improve your sense of self worth. they're usually the first things to go with depression.
when you're depressed everything is difficult and the 'can't be bothered' or 'whats the point' thoughts dominate.
that's the time you need to do something, meditate, walk mindfully. running, swimming.
even brushing your teeth - mindfully, fully aware can help break the negative thought cycle.
don't feel you have to stick with one 'type' of mindful activity (meditating). anything can be done mindfully and will help break that rumination.
i'm not selling anything but this is a link to my session notes that i'm using on a course with friends, if you like then have a read there may just be something in there that can help. https://sites.google.com/site/mindfulraisin/interactive-session-handout
the full 8 sessions are there all linked to online videos, they too can help.
they're not perfect but my small group are finding them very helpful and informative.
don't give up, there are lots of very experienced people on here waiting to help.
you're NOT alone in this, keep coming back for support, tell it as it is and i'm sure we'll all help all we can.
mick
Thanks ever so much Mick for your reply. Ive read your bio on the forum and its good to know how you have managed to move to the place you are now.
Ill put all of your advice into practice in the coming days if its at all possible. At the moment its just getting through the next hour thats the challenge. But I guess mindfulness is about each moment, and then the next moment, a much smaller timescale.
Thanks again, I will keep in touch
Guy
Ill put all of your advice into practice in the coming days if its at all possible. At the moment its just getting through the next hour thats the challenge. But I guess mindfulness is about each moment, and then the next moment, a much smaller timescale.
Thanks again, I will keep in touch
Guy
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piedwagtail91
- Posts: 613
- Practice Mindfulness Since: 0- 3-2011
- Location: Lancashire witch country
good luck guy, be kind to yourself, adapt things to build a practice that works for you. keep in touch. we can all help and all learn from each other.
mick
mick
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Michael_79
- Posts: 17
- Location: Belgium
Hi guy,
I would be really interested if you can update us regularly on how it is going with you. My situation has similarities with yours: I am on AD since a long time, I discovered mindfulness some months ago, I am handling better my depressive phases and I would like one day to stop the meds. It would be helpful for me to continue hearing from your experience.
Best,
Michael
I would be really interested if you can update us regularly on how it is going with you. My situation has similarities with yours: I am on AD since a long time, I discovered mindfulness some months ago, I am handling better my depressive phases and I would like one day to stop the meds. It would be helpful for me to continue hearing from your experience.
Best,
Michael
Hi Michael. Nice to speak to you.
theres not a lot of positive news to report at the moment but I will keep you informed about what happens. Im actually right I the thick of it right now. you must know that state of almost feeling in a different world and negative thoughts bombarding you from all sides.
What I tried to do was ,with the help of the mindfulness meditations ive built up over the months, reduce on one of the 3 meds I take.(in this case citalopram) With my GP we decided on a timescale of about 6 weeks,Thats from 20mg
But I now know this to be far too short a taper, its what the drug companies tell the doctors and bares little relation to the testimonies of many individuals who have tried that timescale and failed. Tapering at 10% a month seems the sensible route.
I got the benefit of being of it for the following 6 weeks but during that period by chance I got an infection with severe diaorea and that probably washed out from my body the other 2 drugs (mirtazapine and Lithium) for 6 days. So after the 6 weeks my mood began to slip and has done til now, 4 weeks later. I reinstated the Cit 4 weeks ago.
At the very depths, I find mindfulness very difficult to do as the breath and its sensations is knocked out by anxiety. But I do keep at it.
I was much encouraged on 2 previous occasions, 12 months and 8 months ago when depression got through but I countered it by lots of meditation which stopped rumination and got through without much pain , both times in 6 weeks. So it does work for me, just not this time. But im committed to it and developing it as and when I improve.
Hope that's of use. Let me know how it is for you.
Guy
theres not a lot of positive news to report at the moment but I will keep you informed about what happens. Im actually right I the thick of it right now. you must know that state of almost feeling in a different world and negative thoughts bombarding you from all sides.
What I tried to do was ,with the help of the mindfulness meditations ive built up over the months, reduce on one of the 3 meds I take.(in this case citalopram) With my GP we decided on a timescale of about 6 weeks,Thats from 20mg
But I now know this to be far too short a taper, its what the drug companies tell the doctors and bares little relation to the testimonies of many individuals who have tried that timescale and failed. Tapering at 10% a month seems the sensible route.
I got the benefit of being of it for the following 6 weeks but during that period by chance I got an infection with severe diaorea and that probably washed out from my body the other 2 drugs (mirtazapine and Lithium) for 6 days. So after the 6 weeks my mood began to slip and has done til now, 4 weeks later. I reinstated the Cit 4 weeks ago.
At the very depths, I find mindfulness very difficult to do as the breath and its sensations is knocked out by anxiety. But I do keep at it.
I was much encouraged on 2 previous occasions, 12 months and 8 months ago when depression got through but I countered it by lots of meditation which stopped rumination and got through without much pain , both times in 6 weeks. So it does work for me, just not this time. But im committed to it and developing it as and when I improve.
Hope that's of use. Let me know how it is for you.
Guy
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