Help! Mindfulness of Deep Breathing

[LucidMind]

Hi all!

It's been a while since i've posted here. Life has been pretty crazy and I got far away from my practice, but i've started to find my way back to it

Anyways, according to many mindfulness teachers (like Jon Kabat-Zinn), when you do mindfulness of breath you are supposed to watch your breath in your belly or nostrils, without controlling it.

However, i've also heard of deep-breathing for relaxation. Thich Nhat Han talks a lot about deep breathing, especially when one feels strong emotions like anger or fear. Deep breathing is also a well known psychological intervention for stress/anxiety. Is it okay to control your breath to do deep breathing, while being mindful of it? I am worried that the act of "controlling" your breath in order to deep breath defeats the purpose of paying attention mindfully. What do you guys think?? Is it worth doing during meditation practice, or should I stick with purely watching. Thanks in advance for the help!!

[piedwagtail91]

i usually do my 'breathing' for around five - 10 minutes before i meditate .
partly because it's usually straight after yoga so it fits naturally there.
i use soham http://www.swamij.com/soham-mantra.htm
or nadi shodana http://www.artofliving.org/yoga-breathing-techniques/alternate-nostril-breathing-nadi-shodhan. doing whichever feels right at the time.
both control the breath but both are very calming, then i meditate.

[ezzo]

Can anyone expand on this reply. I have horrible bouts of anxiety when i see something on the news etc and deep breathing really calms me down especially when im mindfull of the deep breaths that i take, for instance i will breath in deep,hold for 4 seconds and breath out for 12 seconds which triggers a relaxation response and clams my anxiety.

Would this conflict with being mindful, what should i do if im feeling anxious, should i just 'observe ' the anxious emotion without labelling it or judging it whilst continuing to feel it or should i remove the emotion with deep breathing and once calm, only then revert to formal mindful meditaion

I hope someone can give some answers as this is the biggest concern for me as i dont want to develop bad mindfullness habits as im just starting out.

Shold i eradicate traditional meditation or would a combination of both deep breathing meditation and mindfullness meditation be benificial

Mindfulness is amazing but it can ease a sudden panic attack or anxiety burst

Thank s again guy and sorry for the initial flood of posts by me, i will calm down as i gain more info over time

[JonW]

Hi ezzo.
No need to apologise for number of posts.
We're always happy to help out wherever we can on this forum. However, none of us are trained mindfulness teachers so there might be occasions when we'll admit that certain questions are beyond our ken. In those instances, we would refer the person asking the question to a body more qualified.
I know that you'd had a variety of responses already to your question about whether deep breathing meditation mixes well with learning mindfulness practice, so the last thing I want to do is confuse matters further.
I will say though that my concern here would be that one kind of meditation (deep breathing) might well conflict with another (mindfulness meditation). I'm thinking particularly here of what you said about "removing" the emotion with deep meditation, which, as you indicate, is contrary to mindfulness meditation where we learn to be with thoughts and feelings, rather than distance ourselves from them.
You write, "Mindfulness is amazing but it can ease a sudden panic attack or anxiety burst." Did you mean to say that mindfulness CAN'T ease a sudden panic attack or anxiety burst? I'd be grateful if you could clarify that.
In the meantime, do stick with us here and, again, we'll do our best to advise.
Wishing you all good things,
Jon, Hove

[Gareth]

I dont want to develop bad mindfullness habits as im just starting out.

Try to relax ezzo, you might have to take leap of faith to believe me when I say that it's impossible to practise mindfulness incorrectly.

I realise that this is very difficult for somebody just starting out to comprehend. Heaven knows, I wouldn't have got it if somebody was telling it to me back then. Maybe you would benefit from a course: having structure and guidance to help you develop your practice.

We will always be here to help you along the way. The advice that I would give to absolutely anyone, beginner or zen master would be this: keep practising.

[piedwagtail91]

i think i might have added to the confusion with my earlier post.
the breathing i do is pranayama or yoga breathing techniques. although i'm aware of my breath at the time i don't see it or count it as being mindfulness in the sense that when i do it i'm manipulating the breath, it's not a natural breath.
i would stick with just mindfulness, by practicing and following a structured course, from a book or class or skype you'll learn how to be with the anxiety, how to experience it without it becoming overwhelming.
mindfulness will help you to see those anxiety causing thoughts as thoughts and not facts. though it does take time and practice to get there.
mick

[JonW]

One thing to bear in mind is that everyone on this forum was a beginner at one stage. The benefits that have accrued from mindfulness practice didn't come overnight.
Every individual's experience is unique. It pays not be compare your own "progress" with that of others, as that will only lead to thoughts of, "Am I doing it right?" And then, mindfulness becomes yet another way that we judge ourselves.
If, at the start, you feel a few seconds of peace during a meditation, or you get a few moments in the day when you feel completely present, cherish those moments. With practice, and without striving for a particular result, you'll almost certainly find yourself cherishing your life more and more.
All best,
Jon, Hove

[piedwagtail91]

Well put Jon.
I fully agree.
mick

[ezzo]

you'll learn how to be with the anxiety, how to experience it without it becoming overwhelming.
mindfulness will help you to see those anxiety causing thoughts as thoughts and not facts. though it does take time and practice to get there.
mick

I think this quote above from Mick is absolute key and Im beginning to understand that if i stay with my emotions, observe them and accept them but dont 'explore' or make stories fom them - just watch as they come in and float out again, then they will lose their power, after all they are just thoughts, not facts

[piedwagtail91]

session 5 is the session for learning how to do that.
letting go of the thoughts and stories that come with emotions and being in the body with the sensations of those emotions.
Make sure you do the first four sessions to get the skills to do that though.
mick