Mindfulness and negative thoughts

[Bixente]

Hey!

I am on the 7:th week of mbsr-meditation. I am following " Mindfulness- A practical uide to finding peace in a frantic world" by Mark Williams and Danny Penman.
I started because I was looking for something that would make it easier for me to handle my problems. I have time to time problems with something like social phobia and specially with eye-contact.
Mindfulness was a intressting experience for me. I liked the idea to watch my how my thoughts come and go and see that I dont necessayr has to follow them. Sometimes I think it helped me a bit even outside the meditation.
But anyway, in generall it has going in the wrong direction for me. I dont know exacty how it started and why. But some smaller changes in my life the last months has maked my social phobia worse. This experince follows by very negative mood and thought. Now my negative feeling and thoughts is so strong so I can not really look to them on distance as I could look on thought in the begining of the meditation. When I meditade, and I dont have anything else to focus upon that in some way distract me, this touhgts and feelings comes even stronger then ever. They take over. I dont really know what I shall do. Shall I continue to meditate or not ?
Maybe some of you have some thought about this.

[JonW]

Hi Bixente,
Good to hear from you.
As I'm sure you appreciate, none of us on the forum claim to be experts in any way. So we need to be careful about dishing out advice about phobias of any kind.
However, we do try to be as helpful as we can within those parameters.
When you say you've been following the Mark Williams/Danny Penman course, are there meditations you find easier than others? e.g. Sitting, body scan, yoga etc. Also, how long do you meditate for each day?
All best, Jon

[pranna]

Bixente -

Thanks for coming and posting on the forum -- it's great to hear that people are trying meditation as a way to work on issues that are arising within themselves. I think the practice can bring to light what is really going on, but the road through it all isn't necessarily an easy one.

The most important thing is for you to take it slowly and be kind to yourself along the way. If you feel like the practice is bringing up too much -- and you feel like you have no distractions to divert your attention, perhaps you need to limit practice to small amounts while you get used to noticing your mind's habitual patterns. If possible, you could work with a professional while you learn the practice -- someone who could help you through the rough spots that might arise as you bring more awareness to your thinking.

Remember to be kind. Remember that you are practicing to bring some relief and to heal. It's not meant to be rigorous torture, so if it feels like that, it may be best to back off some. I'd highly recommend finding a teacher or someone who can help you personally. Obviously the practice is having some effects. I hope you don't give it up entirely.

Stick around on the site here.. see what others have to say.. ask some more questions. You can participate in the group without jumping headlong into the practice. Maybe that's a way to ease into it

[Vixine]

Hi Bixente,

I think sometimes when we work on things, it gets a little harder before it gets better. Like when I was a teenager I had some acne on my face and the doctor gave me Retin-A to clear it, but the first two weeks my skin got worse and then it got all dry and peeled off... then after that my skin was beautiful The medicine had to purge all the yucky stuff out before it could heal. Sometimes I see mindfulness and therapy as being like this - if we go our whole lives avoiding something we might be functioning okay, but are not really healing or getting better. Sometimes being present or exploring things can bring up emotions that were tucked deep inside and bringing those out a little can be difficult. I don't think discomfort is a reason to stop meditating entirely,it might mean you are really getting somewhere... but I would also recommend if you are having a lot of trouble to make sure you have some good support whether it is a therapist, a meditation teacher or mentor, or someone who knows you who can give you that guidance. I agree with the others to go easy on yourself, be kind and take good care of yourself, and maybe focus for a while on any meditations that seem to be easier for you. However you handle it I hope you are feeling better soon.

[Bixente]

Thank you for all your answers!

Yes, I will try to be kind against myself.
Now, when my thoughts are so negative and strong maybe meditation that doesnt involves the thoughts so much are easier. So maybe I shall do more like bodyscanning instaed. Even if its mean that I go away from what I shall do on week 7 in the 8 week-plan.
About how much I have been meditation every day; it changes a bit from week to week but in average maybe 20 min per day.

[JonW]

The advice of Vixine and Pranna would be very hard to beat, Bixente.
As I'm fond of mentioning on this forum, Jon Kabat-Zinn (who originated the 8-week course) remarks that week 9 is the rest of our lives.
We all experience that 8-week course very differently. It's perfectly OK to stop at week 3/4/whatever and go back to the start. It's perfectly OK to finish week 8 and go back to the start. Repeat that process for a year if that feels right.
Vixine mentioned the potential benefits of having a teacher. Speaking for myself, I gained so much benefit from joining a group course when I first discovered mindfulness. The group dynamic taught me so much.
Feel free to ask any questions. You're among like-minded friends here.
All good things, Jon

[BioSattva]

Hi Bixente,

As far as I am aware, it's perfectly natural for normally hidden stuff to come to the surface making things seem worse than they were before - I guess one could think of it like having an operation to remove a bullet or a tumour - the operation plus the bullet or tumour is a huge stress on the body, but then once everything has been opened up there is then a chance for everything to truly get 'put right'. This quote from ScientificAmerican.com: Decoding the Body Watcher about mindfulness seems to sum up your present experience somewhat:

For some, turning attention inward can be distressing, because it may tune us into emotions that are not comfortable. However, constantly distracting ourselves through attention turned outwards will not remove those underlying emotions. By learning to engage with them through our dedicated interoceptive awareness, we may experience the first signs of healing.

The situation does change if one follows the guidance. Guided meditations can be enough of a distraction and a stabilising force to get one in the 'groove' so to speak so that one can begin to see the rays of sun poking through the clouds - there are some on youtube which are easy enough to find. I particularly like the breathscape and bodyscan one by MBSR founder Dr Jon Kabat-Zinn.

[rara]

As far as I am aware, it's perfectly natural for normally hidden stuff to come to the surface making things seem worse than they were before - I guess one could think of it like having an operation to remove a bullet or a tumour - the operation plus the bullet or tumour is a huge stress on the body, but then once everything has been opened up there is then a chance for everything to truly get 'put right'.

To second this, I must say, when I went through some tragic moments around 18 months ago, I used meditation to try and relieve the mental scars. In all honesty, I spent 6 months in complete mental pain...but every day I could see the light at the end of the tunnel getting closer.

Following that, something amazing happened...and there was an explosion in my mind that killed any care in the world for these emotions. Finally, I was healed...I could laugh all day and night and I didn't know why. I didn't even care...and I still don't.

It's a brave thing to do, and hiding emotions is the easier way to deal with them and to carry these mental scars to your grave. But the truth is, the thought of the challenge is more daunting than the challenge itself.

Just my angle

[Bixente]

Thank you a lot for sharings of your experince and links about this issues!

It give me a new perspective.