'Formal' vs. 'Informal' meditation

[JonW]

I hear what you're saying.
I'm not sure it means that one has reached a point where practice is no longer important. That might apply if one had been seeking enlightenment and had found it.
By "experiencing" I simply mean "attending openly and freely to what is going on within and around me.
During Choiceless Awareness, Kabat-Zinn talks about dropping the scaffolding that supports the meditations. Thereby, there's no concentration on a specific object. So one might focus on the breath, the soundscape or nothing at all. It's all simply "what is".
By looking upon it as "experiencing" meditation rather than "practicing", I guess I'm just acknowledging to myself that the wonder of watching what is actually happening right now is not an end in itself, nor is it a working towards any particular moment. It just is.

[FeeHutch]

Hello
Here are my thoughts on the formal/informal practice idea.
More and more recently I have sat in the midst of my children and husband doing their things and attempted formal practice for want of a better word.
I am finding this useful because the more able I feel to be fully and mindfully present in a more challenging situation, the easier it is for me to more fully integrate mindfulness in to my life. That said I do also find quiet and more formal practice very useful too, especially if I am struggling with my feelings. The space to fully get in touch with myself helps me accept these situations.

To me formal and informal are just labels that help me articulate my experience when talking about it.

[piedwagtail91]

thats one very impressive way to meditate, i thought the bus was chaos, that sounds very challenging.
though i agree with your other point about working with emotions, when i'm doing that i want as much quiet as possible.

[JonW]

When I first started meditating, I did it lying down. Every time I started my spaniel, Banjo, would come over and start licking my face. He clearly thought there was something wrong with me. He was concerned. It took some getting used to.
Nowadays he seem to be aware that I'm meditating and he goes back to sleep.
Getting the cat to stop miaowing is a bigger challenge though!

[BioSattva]

I hear what you're saying.
I'm not sure it means that one has reached a point where practice is no longer important. That might apply if one had been seeking enlightenment and had found it.
By "experiencing" I simply mean "attending openly and freely to what is going on within and around me.
During Choiceless Awareness, Kabat-Zinn talks about dropping the scaffolding that supports the meditations. Thereby, there's no concentration on a specific object. So one might focus on the breath, the soundscape or nothing at all. It's all simply "what is".
By looking upon it as "experiencing" meditation rather than "practicing", I guess I'm just acknowledging to myself that the wonder of watching what is actually happening right now is not an end in itself, nor is it a working towards any particular moment. It just is.

I agree with you - I don't like the idea that I am preparing myself for some other moment or activity - it removes me from the present when I consider that I am practicing for the future. The flipside of dropping this idea, however, is that one can convince oneself that one is truly attending openly and freely when in fact there are still elements working in the background which are going to disrupt one's concentration in the next moment.

I think there is no truly conceptually 'comfortable' way of approaching installing mindfulness in one's life - that's part and parcel of the path, and taking into account the pros and cons of each method of remaining on the path is part of it too.

Returning to my analogy made elsewhere on this forum - the idea of positioning the sled at the top of the hill - aiming it at 'attending truly openly and freely' at the bottom of the hill - and then jumping on, we do not really need the ideas of practice, enlightenment, or truth. We just need to remain on the sled. The positioning of the sled will mean having the kinds of discussions we are having now. For people already on the sled, it could be considered a little lean to the left or right to ensure an arrival dead on target.

[BioSattva]

To me formal and informal are just labels that help me articulate my experience when talking about it.

Indeed - it makes it easier.

It seems there is more of an analog than digital structure underlying our reality, however, so I prefer to see it as a gradient rather than black and white.

As I rise from my seated mindfulness posture in my quiet environment, and while maintaining my mindfulness, I walk out onto the busy street, one could say the potential for stress increases with every step towards the door. Which step takes me from Formal to Informal?

[piedwagtail91]

To me formal and informal are just labels that help me articulate my experience when talking about it.

Indeed - it makes it easier.

It seems there is more of an analog than digital structure underlying our reality, however, so I prefer to see it as a gradient rather than black and white.

As I rise from my seated mindfulness posture in my quiet environment, and while maintaining my mindfulness, I walk out onto the busy street, one could say the potential for stress increases with every step towards the door. Which step takes me from Formal to Informal?

thats a good point!
up until recently i suppose i've always look at formal as when i'm sitting or lying to meditate, thats more or less the way we did in in sessions.
but i also agree with the quote from feehutch and other than when i'm talking with my mentor or other therapists i don't really see any difference, i just see it as being.
i think if anything i probably saw formal initially as a base to build on , to get your mind in the right place ,to prepare you for just being mindful in everyday life.
just reading other peoples views on this forum is a great learning experience, everyone makes a good point - no trolls!! this hAs got to be one of the most beneficial forums i've been on.

[Gareth]

Yesterday, somebody tweeted me that we were really looking forward to their meditation that evening. There's some irony right there. It was a hard one to answer. On one hand the person is meditating which is a good thing, on the other looking forward to your meditation doesn't exactly fit in with the principles of mindfulness. I think it's important that meditation shouldn't be used as escapism, as a way of zoning out of your life. Mindfulness is about accpeting what already is.

I often 'meditate' in the company of my son. He is 3 years old and he is the paragon of mindfulness. For him, the world barely exists outside of the moment that he is in. He demands my attention, and I give it to him, letting go of thoughts whenever they arise. Is this 'formal' or 'informal' meditation? Hard to say, but like I said in the original post, the lines become increasingly blurred as you deepen your practice.

[FeeHutch]

I think it's important that meditation shouldn't be used as escapism, as a way of zoning out of your life. Mindfulness is about accpeting what already is.

^This is such an important point. I know years ago when I first attempted meditation (having never heard of mindfulness) I was expecting that if I could just try hard enough and do it right it would make me a much better person. Strangely enough that did not work out for me

[rara]

Yesterday, somebody tweeted me that we were really looking forward to their meditation that evening. There's some irony right there. It was a hard one to answer.

Following on from my thread about getting angry, I think this is an indication that some of us are doing things in our days that we really aren't here on earth to do! The key being to change the life direction - the way in which the wind is actually blowing us....