'Formal' vs. 'Informal' meditation

[pranna]

Practice continues to change and develop.

I have come to an appreciation of formal practice recently. A new appreciation, I should say, since I've been a big fan for years.

I see that there is a series of stages one can pass through while on the cushion and having the conditions that are present in the formal posture of sitting simply allows one to penetrate more deeply into experience than can typically be done while "up and about".

Being still in the body and developing equanimity with all of the bodily sensations, one can see that the mind arises as the primary object.
Becoming familiar with the mind and its movements, we can let it settle and eventually quiet down. This may or may not be a "goal" of sitting, but it does eventually happen. Being in this quiet space.. getting comfortable and familiar with it.. we can go on to deeper levels still. One by one, the subtle movements of the mind can become known. We can watch the arising and ceasing of these movements. At some point the mind becomes dispassionate and can let go of each successive level. I can say that I've seen the body settle down and I've seen the mind settle down and I've spent some time in that quiet space.. but my personal experience probably ends right around there. If this sounds at all interesting, read this Sutra: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html The Buddha knew how to get to the bottom of it all.. and he spoon feeds it to you right there.

Now, I'm a big fan of mindfulness and try to be mindful when walking around.. but I'm hard pressed to believe that these kinds of insights can be gained through casual mindfulness. At least not until they've been tasted on the cushion.

[rara]

Haha, Gareth and I were chatting about this last month. I think you're totally right...and you're mindful you were using mindfulness

[Medway Tai Chi]

...The Buddha knew how to get to the bottom of it all.. and he spoon feeds it to you right there.
...

Then you imagine It can be wrapped up and packaged into words? Of course It can't! The Buddha was alive, speaking to living people! As soon as his words were put on paper, they were no longer filled with the same potency as the living word of his Truth. Do you really imagine the Buddha did not personally address each and every student according to their living needs?

The dead words can only bring you to the point of seeking out a living practice, which can address your unique, live problems.

The one and only thing necessary is to WAKE UP! Do it right now! What's stopping you??

Now, I'm a big fan of mindfulness and try to be mindful when walking around.. but I'm hard pressed to believe that these kinds of insights can be gained through casual mindfulness. At least not until they've been tasted on the cushion.

If your training is only ever dead, whilst in an artificial setup - how can it ever have a meaningful impact on the rest of your Real life?
'Trying' to be mindful when walking around - useless! Think back to the greatest teaching ever given "Do, or Do Not - there is no Try". It's no good setting out thinking, "I'll try to more mindful today" - you have to just do it! And when you realise you've lapsed, you just do it again. Don't try and tackle the whole day at once. Instead, try this:

"I WILL be mindful whilst I walk out of my home to my car"
then,
"I WILL be mindful whilst I travel from my desk to the coffee machine and back"

Break your day into managable chunks.

[ZenDoe]

First post here! Hi, everybody.

Everyone has said it so well already! Practice on the cushion (or on your back - however you can manage it) is probably best called "formal practice", because it is this kind of practice that really teaches us how to steady our attention and work with thoughts. Practice during everyday activities is how we take our formal practice "into the world". I don't know that what you call it is so important, rather, it's that you DO it!

[JonW]

Hi ZenDoe. Welcome to the group.
As Jon Kabat-Zinn is fond of telling those who attend his clinic: "You don't have to enjoy it (meditation). Just do it."

[pranna]

Well, Medway Tai Chi, I am happy to admit that my practice is a work in progress, and I wish you the very best in your ACTION approach!

A haiku for you:

Mindful intentions --
I say "try" and you say "DO"!
Words aside, what now??

Oh, and here's a great post from another Zen Master on the topic (apart from Yoda, that is):
http://pranna.com/blog/2012/10/zazen-is-just-action/

Let me know what you think!

Peace to all !

[piedwagtail91]

if it helps then when we do our mindfulness therapy sessions , particularly the formal sitting, we're in a civic centre.
this does tend to lead to a lot of background noise.
our sittings for those just starting mindfulness follow a flexible but sort of set guidance (body, breath, sounds , thoughts, emotions, body, breath) so as part of that is meditating on sounds we can work it in if ,say, builders start work outside.
tell them to notice the raw sounds without labeling them, it may be drilling or grinding but approaching it with beginners mind means it's just raw sound from an unknown source.
we then add in parts about thoughts deciding whether or not it's a pleasant or unpleasant sound and then see what emotions that sound brings up - frustration , anger- and explore the sensations of those emotions.
so sounds can be used as a positive thing.
it's sometimes easier to meditate in chaos-i use a bus journey- than in total silence.
it's about being in the moment and if that moment is noise then try to use it positively.
it does take some getting used to as people do associate meditation with silence, even some newly trained teachers.

[BioSattva]

It is a classic trap to divide one's life into 'formal' and 'informal' - my serious practice vs my not serious practice - life on the cushion vs life off the cushion.

Whether one is sitting down, painting, or running a marathon, there is always an opportunity to be right here right now.

The potential to remain in the present is more abundant in the quiet seated posture at the beginning, but then as insight begins to mount up, it naturally and tangibly extends into other situations.

Some situations are more difficult to remain mindful in than others, and this seems to create an apparent divide between what may appear as formal practice or informal practice.

That's my take on it, anyway.

[JonW]

Increasingly I try to avoid the word "practice" as it makes me think of striving towards a particular goal. eg. I might practice my tennis strokes in order to become a better tennis player. However, I don't practice meditation in order to become a better meditator. I try to think of it more in terms of "experiencing" meditation. That leaves it more open ended for me and it seems more fitting in terms of what I'm actually doing when I "sit". But each to their own.

[BioSattva]

I think if one acknowledges one is "experiencing" true mindfulness, then one has arrived at a place where practice is no longer important. There is apparently always some non-acceptance at work behind my so-called mindfulness, and so I don't want to delude myself or set myself up for failure. I am learning to ride the 'acceptance bicycle' here, and it takes practice as far as I am aware.

For example, looking at Kabat-Zinn's statement on how to practice Choiceless Awareness in Full Catastrophe Living (2005), p74:

1. Just sit. Don't hold on to anything, don't look for anything. Practice being completely open and receptive to whatever comes into the field of awareness, letting it all come and go, watching, witnessing in stillness.

If he was to say: "be completely open and receptive to whatever comes into the field of awareness" then everyone would likely fail straight away and for a long time after - just like anyone expected to ride a bicycle around various obstacles having never ridden a bicycle before would.

Ultimately mindfulness seems to be aimed at the subconscious - wherafter practice is no longer necessary. In a way we are encouraging our compassionate nature to 'come out of it's shell', and that is the practice. Once it has fully come out, then there is no need for practice.