Is it possible to ever focus entirely on the breath?

[jwardmagic]

I have been practicing mindfulness for about five years now (though inconsistently). I am a psychology postgraduate student, and recently got into a lengthy discussion with a clinical psychologist, who also lectures on the doctorate I am currently on, and has about ten publications in mindfulness based interventions, and the mechanisms of mindfulness.

One thing which confused me, which I couldn't get a straight answer from him for, was regarding "when do we ever stop thinking?". By that i mean, when I practice, I often catch myself day dreaming, thinking about other things. As always, I bring myself back to my breath. However, I find it is extremely rare for me to find myself 'thought free'. I realise that it's not an objective to become thought free, but I find even when 90% of my attention is on my breath, I am always still in some subtle way thinking. When my stray thoughts have temporarily subsided, I often find myself thinking about the fact that "I am now not thinking as much", or even more commonly, producing a visualisation of my breath (a thought!), rather than completely and utterly just experiencing the sensatons of it.

Simply put, I have never found myself completely just experiencing my breath, or 'the moment'. In some subtle way, I am always thinking, whether it be visualising my breath as I breath, or thinking subtly "now I'm back in the present moment, now I'm back on my breath". I have various questions regarding this, I'd be very grateful for your input:

- I assume that the more I practice, the more aware I will become of these 'deeper level' thoughts, and thus my meditation will become deeper and deeper?
- Regarding the above, surely that is just another motivating thought for practicing. Is it ever possible to practice without such a motivating thought deep down, guiding/motivating the entire practice!?
- Perhaps this is exactly what the point of mindfulness is, to simply notice that it is impossible to escape your thoughts, and learn to welcome them, and not worry about the fact that I am constantly lost in them?

I'll really appreciate your thoughts!

[Peter]

Hi jwardmagic,

In my experience, the easiest way to become as clear minded, and serene as possible, is to go on a silent retreat. Have you ever tried it? I can truly recommend it.

I cannot tell you if you could ever be totally thought free, everybody's different. I know that my mind can be totally quiet, and there's just the 'observing self'. Pretty rare, though.

[Gareth]

- Perhaps this is exactly what the point of mindfulness is, to simply notice that it is impossible to escape your thoughts, and learn to welcome them

Sounds about right to me.

You ask if it's ever possible to be thought-free. The answer is most definitely no. Besides, you wouldn't want to be thought free. Thoughts are critical to functioning as a human being. They can be downright annoying (even worse than that for some people).

Consider this thought:
"I think I can smell gas in this kitchen".

I don't think anyone would disagree that this is a useful thought. Mindfulness simply teaches us to see thoughts for what they are and treat them with more discernment. As thinking is so commonplace, we can't help get snared by thought from time to time, but this doesn't devalue mindfulness. Any improvement on being a slave to the thinking mind is welcome.

[BronteFan]

I manage to most of the time. When I was learning meditation at school I got told I was a natural, though. I find it hard to relax unless I'm meditating, reading, swimming, singing or baking though. At other times unless I'm doing something particularly complex my head goes into over-drive though. Sometimes I've got 3-7 different answers to people going round in my head at the same time & I have to choose what to say to people. The same goes for writing, sometimes I've got 3-7 different ideas going through my head at once & have to get writing before I forget all the different ideas especially as my best ideas come spontaneously. (If I have to think about what I'm writing it doesn't sound as good so I don't really think, I improvise though I've been told improvisation isn't as easy as it seems. I say that I don't write poems. They pop into my head & I type or write them out.) Writing by hand makes it easier to slow down. Maybe, because I keep myself so busy the rest of the time, when I do activities like meditating, swimming or baking my head decides to take a little rest.

[JonW]

Hi Ann,
Do you feel that you manage to fold mindfulness into your everyday life?
The way I look at it is that, while it is impossible to be mindful 24/7, and while it is perfectly fine to do some activities (like driving a car) on autopilot, it is possible to see every moment as an invitation to be mindful.
Another way I look at it is to see that the sitting is the practice; the rest of the day is the meditation.
What helps me to these 'ends' is varying my practice. Sitting, yes. But also regular body scans, mindful walking etc.
These days, i find I can meditate pretty much anywhere: in the supermarket queue, sitting on a bus, doing the washing up...It's endless.
Apart from anything else, seeing opportunities for meditation just about everywhere means that life is endlessly interesting and often astonishing.
Cheers,
Jon

[BronteFan]

Hi Jon!

I feel that I manage to stay mindful most of the day now except for when I'm practising hygge or when I need to multi-task or have relapsed. I do mindful walking too & alter my approaches so I don't get bored.

Cheers!

Ann.

[Eric A.]

You mean, like 100%? So for example, if you looked at both quality (by %) and quantity (% of time + total times) Yes, I suppose it is possible to rest peacefully with only the breath, but realistically how long will most of us be able to do this? I try to get the best % in each session, but controlling thoughts only backfires, I approach it by not controlling them. I allow "focus" to be gently enforced at best. Then i calculate how much time spent at my average % of focus, to decide how much time i need to get "settled in" and then how much time i need to "soak" - and where imperfection or lack of attention falls off, repetition makes up for it. Currently I find I need about 30 minutes of body scan plus 30 minutes of sitting, but this varies all the time. I know my reply wandered off-topic but i hope it is constructive.

[Ibnezubair]

In my experience, the easiest way to become as clear minded, and serene as possible, is to go on a silent retreat. Have you ever tried it? I can truly recommend it.

Will someone explain 'silent retreat'?

Ibnezubair

[JonW]

A silent retreat is a gathering of people to meditate where talking is kept to a bare minimum. The teachers will usually guide ,meditations but the other participants mostly remain completely silent for the duration.