Mindfulness and thinking

[Jonaaaa]

I think my post history shows I struggle with these concepts. If I am honest, I blame the books as they all seem to imply that thinking is not mindfulness as they don't differentiate between active, conscious thoughts and automatic thoughts. Though it could well just be my fault!

I *think* I have cracked it and the summary is:

1. We should try to be aware of the thoughts, emotions, sensations we have, whatever we do

2. We should be wary of drifting into and being lost in automatic thought, which is often unhelpful

3. If what we are doing is a cognitive/mental problem solving task (like a tax return) then if we think and know we are thinking we are being mindful

4. If we get impulses to think about something other than what we are currently doing, be mindful of the impulse and discern whether having the thought will help us accomplish our current task. If so, go ahead and mindfully think, if not, don't

5. Whether the task is a cognitive one or a physical one (like washing up) then an impulse to think about something completely different to the task we are doing is not followed. We could still think about something else whilst washing up (or any other purely physical task) mindfully. But we don't follow the impulse because we seek to minimise too much 'doing' and multitasking.

HAVE I finally cracked it after 8 years of meddling in mindfulness and never grasping this?!

If so, I have a follow-up question, but first things first!

[Gareth]

I think that you have generally got the grasp of the whole thing.

I would just add in relation to points 4 and 5, that it is important to understand that thinking is not something that is totally under our control. If something that you consider to be important is on your mind, your mind will go there over and over, regardless of whether you want it to. Being aware of this thought pattern is crucial in these circumstances.

[monkey]

I agree with Gareth. I found that if I went down the route of trying to do things about my thoughts imediately it all became very judgey and controlling.

Thoughts happen all the time, so I just notice when I've become aware of something, whether it's thinking or something else. If the thinking is something that's repetitive or spinning a story that's building anxiety or a bit ranty or whatever then I figure that the wise action I take is to do something about that, which could be any of a number of things: concentrate on the task at hand, say some kind things to myself, try to get to the bottom of the thought etc.

But for me I find that the awareness is one thing, and maybe no action is needed, and the action is another. If I try to shape my thoughts as I have them, as I say, it's gets pretty controlling and unkind in there!

[Jonaaaa]

Thanks, folks. I have always struggled with the 2 concepts and reconciling them (and non-judgment/discernment, which Gareth & JonW cleared-up for me before - thanks, fellas).

Also, I *know* there are no right and wrong ways to practice but, say, if you sit and watch your breath for 30mins, how many breaths do you manage before your mind takes you elsewhere? How much of the time would you say is spent watching the breath as opposed to being lost in thought?

Incidentally, I have bought the MBSR Home Study course from Sounds True. Not cheap!!! But I hope it can fill-in some of the lacunae in my understanding and practice.http://www.soundstrue.com/store/the-mbs ... rse-1.html

I find the books go too far in depth or are too superficial. Though Shamash Alidina's Mindful Way Through Stress is a good read. Lots of different practices, too.

[monkey]

Hi Jonaaa. I don't really practice that way, because my natural inclination is towards Rules and Structure and therefore, inevitably, Failure and Misery and Self Loathing! But I guess if I did it would really depend on the day, state of mind, tiredness level etc. Some days I feel pretty clear headed, some days it's all very foggy or angry etc. so my ability to focus is really affected by that.

[JonW]

'I find the books go too far in depth or are too superficial.'

For me, Kabat-Zinn's Full Catastrophe Living rules supreme. It overflows with wisdom and it is expressed very simply. I can't imagine it will ever be bettered as a guide to mindfulness.
Cheers,
Jon

[Jonaaaa]

Some great advice, thanks all!

[MindfulnessRVA]

It sounds like you are practicing diligently and it is helping gain insight into how attention ebs and flow, moves and changes. Here are some thoughts to consider about each of your questions / insights-

1) Try to be aware - As you practice being aware moment-to-moment, consider investigating the relationship between thoughts, emotions, sensations. When being aware of a physical experience like breathing, which of these do you notice grabbing your attention first, then second, then third. Observe the co-dependence of each and how they sustain or do not sustain each other?

2) Wary of drifting - Consider investigating the use of the word "wary" vs the word used in point 1) "aware". How might being aware of drifting thoughts be different from being wary? Is there a judgement or an attachment to outcome component more in one word than the other, maybe in a wary practice vs an awareness practice? (Subtle but maybe important idea?)

3) Problem solving - With problem solving, maybe consider observing how our brain (mind) just kicks Mindfulness practice to the curb when it perceives an important task like tax planning? Consider the question through observation - is attention something we control or is it pulled away from us by the most important stimulus? (This plays into point 1 and 2 about awareness and drifting)

4) Mindfully think - This gets into a problem. Consider observing very closely during your meditation if you are choosing to think or if you have an emotions/sensation that compels you to think (This again brings back to above points). What physical sensations are present for you that pull your attention away to certain thoughts vs others? Mindfulness is observation only, be very 'wary' of the fine line between using Mindful observation and turning it into an idea that we are discerning some thoughts as more important to accomplish tasks than others. This is a IMPORTANT distinction.

5) I'm confused about this. If you are in the shower thinking, would this not mean your attention has tuned out everything but the thinking? If someone turned the water to cold, would you still be able to think at all? This gets into point I raised in number 3) about the nature of attention? From observation in my practice, multitasking is actually impossible. This appears to be the case based on neurology also. While the brain might be taking in different stimuli, there is no awareness. Just like if I look at the radio or phone when driving, there is a complete blackness / blackness to the memory or what was happening when driving, b/c attention is only on 1 thing at a time. It is terrifying to recognize, like w/ the driving example.

Last, not to sound Zen but what is it that you want to "crack" (not that I do not want to either). Consider this - What physical sensations and emotions arise that make you feel or believe that you have cracked something? This goes back to point 1) about the interdependent arising of sensation, emotion, thought, behavior (mental phenomena). Take time to observe in meditation and mindfulness practice, the component parts of "knowing".

I hope this is helpful. You are doing great - keep it up!!!