Observing/watching your thoughts. Practical exemples please!

[Quim]

How to observe your thoughts? This is a point that I find really hard and -I must say, is very bad explained in general.

Someone used the exemple of "fishing". You sit and wait your thoughts for "fishing" them. I see the point, but the question is: where is supposed to be the mind while we are waiting for the fish?

We have also the example of the sky and the clouds. The clouds are the thoughts, ok. But between cloud and cloud, where do we focus on? We think in a blue sky (which means to "force" the mind to think on a thing)?

Actually, this is my point: if you focus on your breath, and a thought comes, you notice it and accept it, and then you come back to your breath. I mean, the breath is the base where you can always come back. But, when you only observe your thoughts, where is the base? If we agree that the mind cannot be empty, what is supposed to be in our mind between tought and thought? We have to focus on whatever it comes, like "I have no thoughts now", "I can't think", etc (despite that they are also thoughts)?

Thank you very much.

[JonW]

'I see the point, but the question is: where is supposed to be the mind while we are waiting for the fish?'

Why does the mind have to be anywhere? The idea here is that everything is held in awareness. We are being invited to simply notice our experience as it unfolds, moment by moment.
Jon

[Innerchatter]

it is a tricky one, and i have also been struggling with it, I posted about it a little while back as it happens.

anyhow over the last couple of days I think i have got to point where i understand what needs to be done.

at first i tended to just open up the floodgates and let my mind think about what it chose, i got barrage of pictures with little sense to them but I went along for the ride. but found that i was often very easily carries by them, or just very dizzy so needed to come back to my breath for an anchor.

but over the last few days i have noticed that if you follow the meditations in the order that the book (FPIFW) suggest you get a nice natural build to it an it makes things a bit easier.

So i find by spending a good a few minutes of just focusing on the breath, this allows the mind to settle a little bit, and just gets you in the right mindset. then by expanding awareness to the rest of the body, you are still able to allow the mind to settle but you make your world bigger then just the breath, its your breath and your body.

then you let start listening to sounds, and allow you awareness to spread to these. at first they take all the attention, but after a bit, i find that I'm sitting in a world that is made up of, my breath, my body, the things my body is touching, the sounds around me, and then my thoughts, at this point , I can sit in awareness of these things let the thoughts fade in and out. they are mainly memories from the day, but then i get linking memories that associate with them, and yes quite random and yet linked, so i just go with it, if I find that i get too involved in a thought, i can just just my awareness back to to me my world breathing watching thoughts again.

so yes, hope that helps in some, way, I find the big thing is you have build up to it, but not in a forced way, it just flows, one phase seems to link to the next.

[JonW]

That's a brilliant description, Innerchatter.
Thank you.
Jon

[leosmith]

We are being invited

The word "invited" puzzles me here. Is this something that will be explained at some later stage in the book? I'm only on ch.6.

[JonW]

Hi leosmith,
Every element of a mindfulness course is invitational. Nothing is compulsory.
This is very important as it stresses the fact that you have an agency, you have a choice in all of this.
Speaking from a teacher's perspective, the crucial thing is that everybody's experience is unique and it's important not to assume that everybody is comfortable with the same directions.
The invitational aspect is, to my mind, particularly important in areas like Turning Towards Difficulty and Loving-Kindness. The best example I can think of is when I'm leading a loving-kindness meditation and it comes to the bit about wishing ease of being and good health on someone that you have difficulty with. As a teacher I want the practitioner to know that he or she has a choice as to whether to skip that bit or not. For some people with trauma in their lives, this could be a big challenge. Therefore, an element of choice is important. I just think it's respectful to make it invitational rather than a command.
All best,
Jon

[leosmith]

Hi Jon - thanks for the explanation. I was mainly trying to figure out who was doing the inviting. You answered that, and I get your point about things being up to the individual.

[JonW]

Ah yes, I see.
Well, if we are deliberately bringing mindfulness to a situation, then it's us that is doing the inviting. Elsewhere, life itself does the inviting. It's a wonder that we ever get up off our knees!
Cheers,
Jon

[Quim]

Hello friends,

Thank you for your answers. I've got two more questions:

Which is the book "FPIFW"?

What do you think about practicing with the writing meditations? It's an exercice that consists on writing whatever it comes from your mind for some minutes. You just don't stop writing, reflecting your thoughts without hurry, just letting things be like they are.

I did it and it helped me to observe my thoughts. Do you think it is a good idea?

[JonW]

Hi.
FPIAFW is Finding Peace In A Frantic World by Mark Williams and Danny Penman.
I've never come across writing meditations before. It sounds interesting even if it's not strictly mindfulness practice. And, if it's helping you observe your thoughts, I can't see that it's likely to do you any harm.
Cheers,
Jon