Mindfullness vs Flow

[Innerchatter]

Is mindfulness the same as flow? I suspect they are not the same but would be interested to read your interpretations of these things.
If mindfulness and flow are not the same, which state should we strive to attain? or should we try do achieve both states equally at different times?

just asking out of interest interest really,

cheers

[MindfulnessRVA]

Mindfulness is not a state to attain and it is not about feeling a certain way, it is not about practicing a certain way, it is just about being aware of what is. Mindfulness is impartial and includes the just and unjust alike. Regarding flow, it sounds like w/o saying it directly that you are seeking something. You imply a state but what state are you trying to reach? What would be the motivation to try to attain a state? Wouldn't this mean that you are actually just trying to avoid the "non-flow" or "non-mindful" state? I don't see the purpose in practicing this way, attainment is not Mindfulness.

[JonW]

'Mindfulness is not a state to attain and it is not about feeling a certain way, it is not about practicing a certain way, it is just about being aware of what is.'

Beautifully put.

[japa.guru]

Is mindfulness the same as flow? I suspect they are not the same but would be interested to read your interpretations of these things.
If mindfulness and flow are not the same, which state should we strive to attain? or should we try do achieve both states equally at different times?

just asking out of interest interest really,

cheers

Hello, I'm interested to know what you would describe 'flow' as?

[JonW]

'Any experiences, including any experience of “being in the zone” or “being in the now” are by nature impermanent. They come and go. But it’s not really “the now” or “the zone” that comes and goes. What comes and goes are the thoughts and stories, the misconceptions that seem to obscure the ever-present, all-inclusive ground of being. What I call here/now, what is sometimes called primordial awareness, the Ultimate Subject, emptiness, Buddha nature, the Tao, the Original Face, the One Behind The Masks, the Self, this is never not here.
What comes and goes are the ever-changing sensations, perceptions, experiences, thoughts, imaginations and conceptualisations that appear Here/Now.
So being “in the zone” or “in the now” is not about acquiring something that is missing but rather seeing through what seems to be in the way, relaxing the grasping and seeking movement of mind, letting go into the effortless flow that life is.
We only imagine separation.
Since “the zone” or “the now” is actually the ever-present ground of being and not some special thing that we lack and must acquire, this ability to reside in it or wake up to it is a kind of undoing rather than a doing.
Here/now is all there is. Each momentary form, each wave of the ocean, each character in the play of life is a totally unique expression of the whole. In the absolute sense, there are no mistakes. Any apparent dysfunction is all part of the larger functioning. (Joan Tollifson: Nothing To Grasp)

If you want to know about life, watch it flow. (J. Krishnamurti)

The great life is one that takes part in minding the universe, participating in its flow, making room for the other, bending to the roundness of a life. (Susan Murphy: Upside Down Zen)

[Innerchatter]

thanks for the reply. reading through them and looking at my original question I can see that I worded what I was trying to say wrong. I appreciate that mindfulness is not a state to try try to attain. I was more meaning its better in the grand scheme of things to be mindful than not mindful. so i agree you do not try to attain a state of mindfulness to, you do notice when you are not and bing yourself to the present.

but have found since starting doing this that being mindful you king observed your thoughts and are aware of yourself doing whatever it is your doing and are notice when thoughts arise etc. but when doing something like making music or something like that you can get completely engrossed in it, so you are no longer observing thoughts, your really thinking at that point, just completely focused on the task in hand. so basically not being mindful but being present. so i was wondering from the perspective of someone who practices mindful ness if this was a better state of mind then the observant state of mind, like mindfulness is better then not being mindful.