Few stumbling blocks in my first 5 weeks of Meditation

[Scr_17]

There are pros and cons to any meditation technique, including labeling thoughts.

From your comments above though, it sounds like you are doing just fine. Remember, there's no need to completely refrain from thinking. Thinking comes along in many varieties. Some thinking can be very helpful. Other trains of thought may lead into stressful territory or just be rather deluded or dysfunctional.

You may find labeling thoughts useful, however, it's you awareness of them, rather than the labeling itself, which is key — so if you feel like you don't need to label them, or that the labeling feels clunky or unnecessary, that's fine.

Ha thank you! I probably spoke a little too soon. After having 2 days where I thought the 'inner chatter' was really quite quiet (it actually felt weird, it was almost like 'oh so this is what it feels like without all the background noise'.. Like it felt so quiet and I felt so aware, thoughts and even negative thoughts were popping up but they were like whispers rather than intense). Today I went back into thoughts, negative thoughts which I just couldn't seem take back to the present. It is almost like i start conversing with myself and judging myself before I get chance to notice them.

One thing you mentioned there is dysfunctional and deluded thoughts, i have definitely experienced these at times & find them particularly hard to let them be.. Instantly conversing with them as theyre all ridiculosuly false. Or even if letting them be then later on thinking wtf!
I am seeing what is going on, like i see the weather pattern forming, negative thoughts, sensations, sad feelings.. However sometimes then can't bring myself back to the present. The act of being gentle without judgement seems to be lost on me as soon as irrational thoughts arise even if i know theyre completely irrational. Say a thought says 'I am ___' which you know not to be true, letting it come in and stay present seems hard when you know its false

The whole being 'open' to them too, like i find if i say 'come in and stay for a while' it helps, but then i almost start conversing with myself doing that!

You're a big help Matt, i will check your website out. I am going to look for a practioner in the area too!

[Matt Y]

Ha thank you! I probably spoke a little too soon.

Ha, can't say I'm surprised! The mind has its own weather systems — and we often don't have a way of accurately forecasting what its going to be like! On the other hand, I'm sure the experience of having things a little quieter was welcome — and with experience, that will likely become more common.

Today I went back into thoughts, negative thoughts which I just couldn't seem take back to the present.

This idea that if you are thinking you are not in the present is a misnomer, and not helpful (at least in my opinion). When are you thinking? Right now, in the present of course. You can't think yesterday, or tomorrow. You can only think in the moment. You might think about the past or future, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you are not present. If you are aware of your thoughts, then you are being mindful, and you are present.

Knowing that your thoughts are deluded or dysfunctional is useful; very useful. This kind of 'judgment' or discernment is what we are trying to develop in mindfulness. You might call it wisdom.

So, I would say you are doing fine. The type of thinking you are doing is in the service of discernment and wisdom, and that's the type of thinking (or awareness) that you want to cultivate.

Glad you're finding the forum helpful.

[JonW]

I couldn't possibly better Matt's advice.
I've never been a fan of labelling thoughts myself. I find that, if I label a thought such as "sad thought" or "angry thought", I'm more likely to be drawn into the content of the thought.
Cheers,
Jon

[Happyogababe]

This is a really good discussion, highlighting experiences and challenges in the beginning weeks (similar to which I've noted) and providing excellent guidance/help and support, I think this would be helpful for people who are new to everyday mindfulness.

Have a good day.

[Scr_17]

I couldn't possibly better Matt's advice.
I've never been a fan of labelling thoughts myself. I find that, if I label a thought such as "sad thought" or "angry thought", I'm more likely to be drawn into the content of the thought.
Cheers,
Jon

Just generally label them thoughts then? 'Thoughts, thoughts' then focus your attention back to your anchor? From the moment you get up to you go to sleep repeating this over and over or does it just become like more of a habit that you start doing a little more subconsiously?

I agree with other posts saying you guys have been a great help and this discussion.

[Scr_17]

Ha thank you! I probably spoke a little too soon.

Ha, can't say I'm surprised! The mind has its own weather systems — and we often don't have a way of accurately forecasting what its going to be like! On the other hand, I'm sure the experience of having things a little quieter was welcome — and with experience, that will likely become more common.

Today I went back into thoughts, negative thoughts which I just couldn't seem take back to the present.

This idea that if you are thinking you are not in the present is a misnomer, and not helpful (at least in my opinion). When are you thinking? Right now, in the present of course. You can't think yesterday, or tomorrow. You can only think in the moment. You might think about the past or future, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you are not present. If you are aware of your thoughts, then you are being mindful, and you are present.

Knowing that your thoughts are deluded or dysfunctional is useful; very useful. This kind of 'judgment' or discernment is what we are trying to develop in mindfulness. You might call it wisdom.

So, I would say you are doing fine. The type of thinking you are doing is in the service of discernment and wisdom, and that's the type of thinking (or awareness) that you want to cultivate.

Glad you're finding the forum helpful.

That's great to hear. I definitely am seeing thought patterns develop, and how they are making me feel, it's just the frustration when I can't redevelop back focus to an anchor, but I guess that comes with practise! I'm so thankful I found mindfulness though, i went weeks & weeks with these negative/deluded thoughts etc where it seemed like they drained me of compassion for myself & thinking other people would judge me etc..

So even though I am seeing patterns etc but can't fully get out of them at times, feeling like I can't connect to an anchor I am still mindful? The thing is it's purely in work when I feel like because I'm sat staring at a computer I can't do a full 3min breathing space.. If i was at home and saw these patterns develop I would just meditate and know i'd feel 10x better!! I do plan on re-reading the first few chapters of mindfulness. I've bought the self compassion 'Kristin Neff' book & already after the first exercise felt the warmest compassion towards myself I've felt ages

[Matt Y]

... it's just the frustration when I can't redevelop back focus to an anchor, but I guess that comes with practise!

I don't think good focus necessarily comes with practice. I believe it depends on how you relate to your thoughts. What I'm hearing from your comments is that you have quite a strong desire to escape from 'negative' thinking. It's this aversion to thoughts that I believe makes it difficult for you to refocus. You may like to experiment with allowing those thoughts to be a part of the process of meditating. You don't have to banish thoughts to find peace of mind. Instead, you just need to befriend them. This again, may be quite counter-intuitive. I find it helpful to imagine thoughts as upset toddlers. Your job is to be a good parent to them; to try and comfort and soothe them. If you ignore a toddler, or scold him / her for being upset, they will only become more upset (cry louder). Conversely, if you offer gentle and supportive comments and reassurance, then the toddler will calm down.

In other words, how well focused you are in meditation depends on how well you deal with the 'so-called' distractions (and not on how much force or effort or will-power you put into trying to remain focused).

So even though I am seeing patterns etc but can't fully get out of them at times, feeling like I can't connect to an anchor I am still mindful?

I would say, yes, your mindfulness is increasing. However, what might be missing is a degree of investigation. Just being aware of something is not always quite enough. You also need to be curious about how things are being held together. Be curious about the causes and conditions that make it difficult for you to refocus. You could ask yourself a simple question like "What's going on here?" and then just sit back and notice what you become aware of.

The thing is it's purely in work when I feel like because I'm sat staring at a computer I can't do a full 3min breathing space.

I understand that the 3 minute breathing space was designed for just such situations! If you feel self-conscious, just meditate with your eyes open. You can keep looking at your computer screen even as you become aware of your breath, or alternatively, the sounds around you.

[Scr_17]

... it's just the frustration when I can't redevelop back focus to an anchor, but I guess that comes with practise!

I don't think good focus necessarily comes with practice. I believe it depends on how you relate to your thoughts. What I'm hearing from your comments is that you have quite a strong desire to escape from 'negative' thinking. It's this aversion to thoughts that I believe makes it difficult for you to refocus. You may like to experiment with allowing those thoughts to be a part of the process of meditating. You don't have to banish thoughts to find peace of mind. Instead, you just need to befriend them. This again, may be quite counter-intuitive. I find it helpful to imagine thoughts as upset toddlers. Your job is to be a good parent to them; to try and comfort and soothe them. If you ignore a toddler, or scold him / her for being upset, they will only become more upset (cry louder). Conversely, if you offer gentle and supportive comments and reassurance, then the toddler will calm down.

In other words, how well focused you are in meditation depends on how well you deal with the 'so-called' distractions (and not on how much force or effort or will-power you put into trying to remain focused).

So even though I am seeing patterns etc but can't fully get out of them at times, feeling like I can't connect to an anchor I am still mindful?

I would say, yes, your mindfulness is increasing. However, what might be missing is a degree of investigation. Just being aware of something is not always quite enough. You also need to be curious about how things are being held together. Be curious about the causes and conditions that make it difficult for you to refocus. You could ask yourself a simple question like "What's going on here?" and then just sit back and notice what you become aware of.

The thing is it's purely in work when I feel like because I'm sat staring at a computer I can't do a full 3min breathing space.

I understand that the 3 minute breathing space was designed for just such situations! If you feel self-conscious, just meditate with your eyes open. You can keep looking at your computer screen even as you become aware of your breath, or alternatively, the sounds around you.

Thank you. Your points really help, I will try doing the 3 minute breathing space tomorrow if I feel at work i'm becoming overwhelmed. The negative thoughts/irrational thoughts have definitely calmed when I have befriended them in the past, as they come up & are completey false it sometimes takes a while to befriend them instantly I see myself arguing against them. I will definitely try befriending them. With befriending, would you add extra thoughts such as 'these are ok, befriend them' for example or just try holding them in a gentle light, letting them stay?

I've just watched a 1hr 30minute Mark Williams talk, and wow. The explanations about your minds processors really gave me more understanding. When I originally read the first few chapters I had forgotten most throughout meditations. The way he describes 'marvelling' at your mind wandering with curiosity rather than getting into self critical thoughts about mind wandering is definitely going to be a big help going forward and ties into what you mentioned about being curious as to what is going on!