FPIAFW - Week 4: Moving Beyond The Rumour Mill

[fabiG]

Sorry, I think I misunderstood you.

No, they become truly troubling, but so far I thought I must analyze them, engage with them rather than just accepting that it is okay to have them. This is the point where I'm struggling ;)

Edit: The thing with thoughts is I guess that they are completely unreliable, aren't they. And I just don't want to make my life depended on that. I don't want to enjoy life only when I have good and confidence boosting thoughts, but also when I'm feeling not that good. That's I guess the thing I was referring to earlier, when we were discussing about the good thoughts and mindfulness. Does that make any sense? :)

Thanks to you all for your support and help, really appreciate it :)

[JonW]

Apologies, fabiG. I misunderstood.
The best advice I can offer at this point is try to be patient. This stuff does take some time to percolate. We're trying to do unlearn a lifetime of conditioning and deeply-ingrained habits. That takes time.
Be gentle with yourself and let us know how you get on.
Cheers,
Jon

[fabiG]

Thanks very much. I did read the chapter of week 8 today again making myself clear why I want to practice, and I feel it helped me. Funnily enough I changed the order of the meditations completely, starting with exploring the difficulty, going to Sounds and Thoughts (and the cinema is an interesting analogy because I think it gives you more choices to visualize your thoughts) and ended with concentrating on my breath. Feel this suits better for me and I'm going to explore that order more...

All the best from Germany to you all,

Fabian

[Mindsfull]

This week I'm finding interesting. Just wanted some input really...

Although when I focus on the breath or the sounds my mind wanders just like the rest....
But when it comes to watching thoughts or relating to thoughts in the same way as sounds, I just get nothing. Blank.

I'm not sure what I should be seeing or doing so it's quite confusing for me at the moment.

[JonW]

If nothing is what you are experiencing, then just register that - nothing.
Nothing special is meant to happen. We are simply paying attention to our experience in the moment. If that amounts to nothing, that's just the way it is.
Cheers,
Jon

[Mindsfull]

Thanks Jon,

I was worried you was going to say that!

But I've now done this for a couple days and don't seem to have any way to 'watch' the thoughts.

Are we visualising this stuff?

Such as the approaching thoughts as cloud or similar analogies... are we visualising this or are we just approaching the practice in this way (the latter being my thoughts on this)

Any info would be great,

[JonW]

Yes, it's a kind of visualisation and it's not uncommon for people to find it challenging.
All we are doing here is recognising that thoughts are only mental events. Thinking about being attacked by a tiger is not the same as being attacked by a tiger. It's also an acknowledgement that most of our thoughts arrive unbidden. We don't choose them. They simply arise. By visualising, we are decentring in a sense - choosing to take a different perspective. Perhaps it's possible for you to do this without the visualisations.
Cheers,
Jon

[Kukurijek]

I have struggled with the notion of observing thoughts this week as well. I might be finally getting around to it, in that I am still somewhat focused on breathing but let my mind "go" a bit. When a thought arises, I gently try to identify it as such as not go any further. Than I associate that thought with a mental image and imagine its a soap bubble until it starts fading away.

Maybe that's not the prescribed approach and maybe I am "doing" too much, but I feel like that's the closest I am going to get

[JonW]

Sounds good to me, Kukurijek.
Jon

[Oldmanskateclub]

I would also say that I have struggled with thinking anything as soon as I focus on wathcing my thoughts. I'm not that surprised though. There's nothing like the pressure of having to think something to remove any chance of me having a thought!

There were a couple of passages in the book which I thought interesting with regards to not having any thoughts to watch. The first is just after the heading '' which describes Dana experiencing something similar which was reassuring.

Later in the chapter it also talks about different kinds of thoughts. One kind that is described are the little running commentary thoughts, which I definitely have even if I have no big, involving thoughts about past or future events. Mine tend to be along the line of 'no thoughts here', and 'still not having any thoughts'. Does anybody know if these are the whispers from the seat behind in the cinema, or floating down the river behind us kind? They don't appear particularly judgmental as described in the book, although perhaps there's a nagging 'I should be having thoughts' thought behind them!