Full Catastrophe Living - necessary? Worthwhile, even?

[MindPhil]

I have tried to like this book. But 600 pages, a lot of which is vague and inaccessible (orthogonal rotations in consciousness?) and makes what can be an esoteric subject to newcomers even more difficult to grasp.

But it is seen as the locus classicus of modern, secular meditation.

Is it worth just persevering with this book and doing the 8 weeks with the CDs, because of the useful information which is there in the book?

At the moment I am just doing a watching the breath practice every day for 30 minutes.

Also, if I did do the MBSR course in FCL I wouldn't do the yoga, I'd stick with the body scan. I cannot STAND yoga, I hate it with a passion.

Are there any good alternatives to learn MBSR practice? I must say, I prefer MBSR to the MBCT I have read as it seems to have been designed for depression (I think the Williams et al book would be invaluable to depression sufferers) then juxtaposed onto other 'disorders'. I was very disappointed with The Mindful Way Through Anxiety, which seemed to be excellent for social anxiety but not other types. There were also typos in it which I could spot as someone who has dabbled in the practice, whereas a complete newbie would be baffled by them.

[piedwagtail91]

i had to read this book to get onto the teacher training course.
my write up on it wasn't too well received, but it was honest and they appreciated that.
i ended by saying there was a lot of good, useful stuff in it, but that if you took all the waffle out it would make a good pamphlet.
and that's still how i see it.
i've never listened to a JKZ meditation though i was given all his cd's, i used my mentors recordings.

i came from mbct because of depression, we did touch on mbsr in training though all my practice has been mbct/self compassion based until recently.

the yoga or mindful movement of some sort is essential to the mbct course, though i think it's often misunderstood by some of those on the course.
it's not so much about the physical aspect or getting more flexible, but it's about body sensations and understanding them.
mindful movement, which can be any movement done mindfully, helps you become more aware of body sensations from subtle to intense, something the body scan can't let you experience unless you already have chronic pain.
being with the sensations of hate (of yoga!) and noticing how they shift and change could be helpful, they can be quite strong sometimes

practicing mindful movement helps you to be present with the difficulties and their body sensations 'feelings' introduced in week 5 of the mbct course.

[JonW]

I wouldn't recommend FCL to someone starting out in meditation practice, but I think it's a great book for someone who has grounded themselves in mindfulness and is looking for a deeper understanding of the practice. Same goes for JKZ's Coming To Our Senses.
Finding Peace In A Frantic World is the book I always recommend for those looking to do the 8-week course.
Jon

[Matt Y]

What works for you and what you like are very individual things.
You don't need to read JZK in order to learn to meditate.
You do need to find something that works and resonates for you.
If you want really simple, clear books on meditation (without the esoteric waffle) you could try Eric Harrison's The Five Minute Meditator or Lorin Roche's Meditation Made Easy.

Also, you don't need to do any form of yoga or body based practice in order to meditate; but you may find that at some point your aversion to such practices diminishes. And of course, you can't escape the body, so you're going have to work with it at some point.

Finally, there are also many alternatives to MBSR and MBCT.

[MindPhil]

Thanks, all. It really is a shame that he writes like this because I can see it possibly being the book that people turn to first, due to its longevity and Amazon reviews. I think if it were the first book I ever read on the subject I'd never have persevered any further.

I have had practice in learning to decipher sometimes very complex texts (I am not claiming any expertise or 'brilliance' here, just saying I am more practiced at it than some other folk, and that anyone could become so) but I still find it, in places, confusing. So what chance the person who isn't really a reader, who has 4 kids to look after and just 15 minutes each night before they pass out, exhausted? 600+ pages of it, too?

Sorry to keep moaning about it but I think it is because I am frustrated with the book. I can see nuggets of gold in it but am so put off by the thick layers of mud they're covered by that I can never motivate myself to dig through.

I did have Finding Peace In A Frantic World some time ago but never did it as a course, I just dipped into it. Can't remember why that was.

See that Shamash Alidina has got recent book out on stress and the practice, might check that out.

[piedwagtail91]

you're not moaning!
you're sharing a very valid opinion.something we're all entitled to do.
i agree with all you say about it.
i know it would have put me off the course if i'd had to read it to do mindfulness.
the book could be so much better than it is.
my mentor loved the book, so we always had something to talk/argue about!
just because it's by JKZ doesn't automatically make it essential reading , especially as there are now others which are far more readable.
it is a good book if you're prepared to dig out the good stuff.

[FeeHutch]

Pied, it's really interesting that your honest and thoughtful response to the book wasn't well received. It makes me quite sad because it feels like in order to be a teacher you must think the same way as those teaching you. Being mindful is about getting in touch with yourself not getting in touch with someone else if you know what I mean?

[piedwagtail91]

exactly.
i hear a lot of 'stock' quotes from some teachers. it's like they're not connected or something..
mindfulness comes from within, that's leading a practice and everything else.
i suppose i've always had a maverick side!

[JonW]

I'd agree that you don't need to read JZK in order to learn to meditate.
I'd also agree that you don't necessarily need to do any form of yoga or body based practice in order to meditate.
But mindful movement and the body scan are hugely important parts of the 8-week mindfulness course.
If anyone wanted my advice about getting started in mindfulness, I would always recommend that they seek out a course with an experienced, recommended teacher. Either on a 1-2-1 basis or as part of a group.
However, signing up to a course is not always feasible for people. Often finances or geography make it difficult. In which case I'd say that doing the course with the help of a book can be an acceptable substitute if one commits to the practices.
I've read Eric Harrison's The Five Minute Meditator and can see that it could be a useful entry point for people wanting to try meditation. But it's not going to give someone a firm grounding in mindfulness. The clue is in the title: Five Minute Meditator.
Ultimately, mindfulness is about getting in touch with ourselves but most of us require a firm grounding in mindfulness so that we can develop and sustain a practice. As we all know, sustaining is the challenging part.
Jon, Hove






You do need to find something that works and resonates for you.
If you want really simple, clear books on meditation (without the esoteric waffle) you could try Eric Harrison's The Five Minute Meditator or Lorin Roche's Meditation Made Easy.

Also, you don't need to do any form of yoga or body based practice in order to meditate; but you may find that at some point your aversion to such practices diminishes. And of course, you can't escape the body, so you're going have to work with it at some point.

Finally, there are also many alternatives to MBSR and MBCT.

[MindPhil]

Got Alidina's 'The Mindful Way Through Stress'. Looks accessible, think I will give a it a go as I would benefit from a structured program to encourage discipline. 'Freestyling' my practice it is too easy for my doubting self to say "I haven't got time today, I'll just practice extra-vigilantly tomorrow."

I still aint doing yoga though!

This may well change, as stated above. Just out of interest I don't like it because I do exercise frequently with kettlebells and the yoga does tend to exacerbate the little niggles and soreness that creates. BUT I do try to exercise as mindfully as possible and find it makes lifting so much easier when you aren't nurturing a mindful of negative stuff while you do it!

And I will dip into FCL and highlight the bits that are useful and ignore the rest like the 'dots' puzzle.