Hello everyone, its been a while since my last post although i do read everyday. I suffer from bouts of anxiety attacks, this is normally when i see eye floaters on a sunny day and a huge wave of anxiety / panic comes over me. Even though i know my fears are irrational it does not stop anxiety coming along to say hello.
For years i would always do some deep breathing at that point which would calm me down for as we know when we deep breath (as in 'traditional meditation' it invokes the body's natural relaxation reflex)
Since i started practicing mindful meditation (i have completed an 8 week FPIAFW course) i am left a little confused as to what to do.
When im feeling anxiety, should i revert to deep breathing or should i simply 'feel' and be with the anxiety in a mindful way? The 2 contradict each other
I am very excited about mindfulness meditation but dont know if it would be a mistake to quit all my traditional meditation practices that I have done for many years. I used to spend 30 mins each day deep breathing / mantra / trace inducing etc to en-train the brain but mindfulness is totally different.
Can the 2 compliment each other, for instance, 20 mins mindfulness in the morning and 20 mins traditional 'Buddha' type meditation in the evening?
Would this be counterproductive? I would like to practice both types of meditation but i am fearful that this would not be helpful ... or maybe its a good thing? i don't know. Thats why im back on this great forum
So to reiterate, during an anxiety attack - mindful or deep breathing? :-/ and can traditional meditation be practiced alongside mindfulness meditation. I need to get it right from the start as i go onto my lifelong practice
Thank you everyone for reading
Terry
calm down or anchor in?
ezzo wrote:When im feeling anxiety, should i revert to deep breathing or should i simply 'feel' and be with the anxiety in a mindful way? The 2 contradict each other.
I'm not sure that they do completely. Can you not just acknowledge and accept the anxiety while continuing to focus on your breathing?
I'm not an expert, but I would say that if you are aware of the anxiety and accept it whilst continuing to focus on your breathing. And then the anxiety lessens by itself, then I can't see how this would go against the principles of mindfulness practice.
Let me ask some people who are more experienced than I am....
Let me ask some people who are more experienced than I am....
Hi Terry,
great topic, thank you for sharing. Mindfulness is really just bringing curiosity, interest and attention to the present moment, so I would say this:
Keep doing what has worked, and pay attention while you're doing it. You can do deep breathing and chant with mindfulness. You can mow the lawn with mindfulness, you can do anything with mindfulness!
I'm curious, how does 'Buddha' type meditation differ from mindfulness? It all builds awareness, so whatever practice you do will be helpful.
Again, great questions.
Cheers,
great topic, thank you for sharing. Mindfulness is really just bringing curiosity, interest and attention to the present moment, so I would say this:
Keep doing what has worked, and pay attention while you're doing it. You can do deep breathing and chant with mindfulness. You can mow the lawn with mindfulness, you can do anything with mindfulness!
I'm curious, how does 'Buddha' type meditation differ from mindfulness? It all builds awareness, so whatever practice you do will be helpful.
Again, great questions.
Cheers,
Author of Mindfulness Plain and Simple
http://www.alittlepeaceandquiet.com
http://www.peacethroughmindfulness.com.au
http://www.alittlepeaceandquiet.com
http://www.peacethroughmindfulness.com.au
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Hi Terry and all, it seems to me that if for example you were going to give a public talk then to calm yourself down with deep breathing is useful. However, if this becomes the way you "handle" anxiety then over time it tends not to be the best way forward.
Imagine a fire (anxiety in this case and other strong emotions) and we want to put the fire out. Most of us most of the time just want to throw a blanket over the fire - it puts it out but only temporarily - that is because all the ingredients are still there for the fire to blaze again and it will when the conditions arise. Putting a blanket over the fire equates to trying to calm the anxiety. Now I agree with Oli here you can do both, but if you are serious about ending this once and for all then you must begin the process of gaining insight into it.
What I mean here is that you must start to observe very carefully the believed thoughts (fuel) and the emotions (fire) that the believed thoughts generate. Normally when we get anxious we are buffeted about by the thoughts and emotions like a little boat on the great ocean. Mindfulness is both that which contains the emotions and thoughts and the ability to be aware and to experience them.
Normally however we dwell in the "fuel" of the thoughts when what we need to do is to feel the "fire" of the emotions. Without fuel every fire eventually burns itself out then there is nothing left to reignite.
This takes courage and trust in mindfulness that in the early stages of practice we don't tend to have.
What you can do is to experience anxiety with awareness. What i mean is, talk yourself through it. For example, locate the sensation of anxiety in the body and label it -'now it feels like jumpy', 'feeling like something bad is going to happen,' 'I'm having a thought people will laugh at me". Of course you will have your own story but if you learn to suffer with awareness rather than trying to get rid of it you will grow from the experiences.
be well and happy, Suryacitta
Imagine a fire (anxiety in this case and other strong emotions) and we want to put the fire out. Most of us most of the time just want to throw a blanket over the fire - it puts it out but only temporarily - that is because all the ingredients are still there for the fire to blaze again and it will when the conditions arise. Putting a blanket over the fire equates to trying to calm the anxiety. Now I agree with Oli here you can do both, but if you are serious about ending this once and for all then you must begin the process of gaining insight into it.
What I mean here is that you must start to observe very carefully the believed thoughts (fuel) and the emotions (fire) that the believed thoughts generate. Normally when we get anxious we are buffeted about by the thoughts and emotions like a little boat on the great ocean. Mindfulness is both that which contains the emotions and thoughts and the ability to be aware and to experience them.
Normally however we dwell in the "fuel" of the thoughts when what we need to do is to feel the "fire" of the emotions. Without fuel every fire eventually burns itself out then there is nothing left to reignite.
This takes courage and trust in mindfulness that in the early stages of practice we don't tend to have.
What you can do is to experience anxiety with awareness. What i mean is, talk yourself through it. For example, locate the sensation of anxiety in the body and label it -'now it feels like jumpy', 'feeling like something bad is going to happen,' 'I'm having a thought people will laugh at me". Of course you will have your own story but if you learn to suffer with awareness rather than trying to get rid of it you will grow from the experiences.
be well and happy, Suryacitta
Suryacitta is mindfulness teacher and author
He has been practising since 1989.
He runs regular webinars FREE for people who cannot attend classes in person
https://app.webinarjam.net/register/36719/4a30c901be
http://www.mindfulnesscic.co.uk
He has been practising since 1989.
He runs regular webinars FREE for people who cannot attend classes in person
https://app.webinarjam.net/register/36719/4a30c901be
http://www.mindfulnesscic.co.uk
great analagy and a real insight Suryacitta thankyou. This seems to be a much better approach, to explore the physical feelings rather than 'throw a blanket on.
My real problem is the horrible thoughts I have about my eye floaters are there nearly all the time, from the moment i wake till the moment i sleep, i try to 'accept and acknowledge' these thoughts, i realize they are irrational but the thought remain, they are so damn adhesive. I dont try to ignore the thoughts as i know that makes it worse.
Generally, its just the eye floater issue that causes the problem in my mind. Apart from that mindfulness has helped my dramatically and given me a whole new way of being. What are your views on creating an internal dialogue so for instance, each time i worry about my eye floaters i can say to myself 'my eyes are fine, they have been checked, eye floaters are harmless' and repeat this over and over. Would this approach make things worse as I would then be giving the irrational thoughts some 'importance' in my mind?
Im sorry for sounding a bit mad. Most people could probably accept when there is not a problem but it my high levels of 'thinking the worst' in every situation that originally drove me to mindfulness, thank you eveyone
Terry
My real problem is the horrible thoughts I have about my eye floaters are there nearly all the time, from the moment i wake till the moment i sleep, i try to 'accept and acknowledge' these thoughts, i realize they are irrational but the thought remain, they are so damn adhesive. I dont try to ignore the thoughts as i know that makes it worse.
Generally, its just the eye floater issue that causes the problem in my mind. Apart from that mindfulness has helped my dramatically and given me a whole new way of being. What are your views on creating an internal dialogue so for instance, each time i worry about my eye floaters i can say to myself 'my eyes are fine, they have been checked, eye floaters are harmless' and repeat this over and over. Would this approach make things worse as I would then be giving the irrational thoughts some 'importance' in my mind?
Im sorry for sounding a bit mad. Most people could probably accept when there is not a problem but it my high levels of 'thinking the worst' in every situation that originally drove me to mindfulness, thank you eveyone
Terry
Hi Terry,
This situation reminds of a little while back, when I got notification that I was going to be moved posts at work.
Before that, I had experienced a long period of peace and serenity, undoubtedly down to my mindfulness practice.
Then this new thing happened to me and I was suddenly bombarded with thoughts and anxieties. It felt like the mindfulness rug had been pulled from beneath me.
This period taught me a lot. I just had to allow the anxiety to be, rather than fighting it. Like Suryacitta says, it is a fire that burns itself out better without the fuel of thoughts.
This situation reminds of a little while back, when I got notification that I was going to be moved posts at work.
Before that, I had experienced a long period of peace and serenity, undoubtedly down to my mindfulness practice.
Then this new thing happened to me and I was suddenly bombarded with thoughts and anxieties. It felt like the mindfulness rug had been pulled from beneath me.
This period taught me a lot. I just had to allow the anxiety to be, rather than fighting it. Like Suryacitta says, it is a fire that burns itself out better without the fuel of thoughts.
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G'day Terry,
You have some wonderful insights above already. I do agree with Gareth, that there is no contradiction with certain practices. Mindfulness is a way of being rather than being a particular type of practice. You need not worry that certain practices of meditation will clash or reduce the effects of one another. In reality all meditations are really practices of mindfulness. You could say that meditation is simply the formal practice of mindfulness.
As was mentioned, you can sit mindfully (as in formal meditation), mow the lawn mindfully or brush your teeth in the same manner.
Whats more important really is truly understanding what it is to embody this mindful way of being.
Your experiencing anxiety and this is a wonderful opportunity to use mindfulness.
As Suryacitta mentioned, in times of unwanted emotion we often want to escape the pain, drown it out or push it away somehow. We want it to stop. All these ways of avoiding pain only perpetuate it in the long run. Avoidance creates suffering and keeps us from living fully, this miraculous and precious life that we have.
Instead of ‘turning away’ from pain in avoidance we can learn to gently ‘turn towards’ what we’re experiencing. We can bring a caring open attention toward the wounded part of ourselves and then from there make wise choices about how to respond to ourselves and to life. For you, that may be in that moment - a choice to take a deep slow breath.
Your not avoiding the emotion here. Your mindfully attending to it and then it may well be that your response is to slow the breath and even sooth the mind with the thought - "I am actually ok here and now. I am safe".
That would be a mindful response rather than an unconscious reaction of just wanting the pain to stop.
I recently posted a blog on this website is with i detailed a 6 step process for dealing with difficult emotions. I think you'll find it very helpful so i'll paste the steps here....
Here is a six step process for mindfully dealing with difficult emotions…
1. Stop, Turn Towards
Once you have become aware of the feeling, stop for a moment. Take a deep breath and then ‘sit with’ the anger, shame, guilt, anger, anxiety, frustration and fear. Don’t inhibit it, suppress it, ignore it or try to conquer it. Just be with it with an attitude of open curiosity and acceptance.
2. Identify The Emotion
Acknowledge the emotion is there. If you are embarrassed, you can specifically recognize that feeling. You can mentally say to yourself, for example, “I know there is embarrassment in me.”
3. Acceptance Of What Is
When you are embarrassed, or feeling another difficult emotion, you don’t need to deny it. You can accept what is present. In his book Peace is Every Step, Thich Nhat Hahn suggest we actually mentally acknowledge to ourselves…
“I can accept that I am experiencing intense embarrassment right now.”
Through your mindful acceptance you can embrace or hold the feeling in your awareness– this alone can calm and soothe you. This is an act of self-compassion and responsiveness to your own distress, and it is so much more effective than punishing yourself for having this feeling.
See if you can open to feeling what you feel. Opening to it means to see what is there fully without suppressing, rejecting, ignoring or trying to be ‘stronger’ than the emotion.
By opening and embracing the emotion you create a mental space around it and witness it instead of being enmeshed in it. Be creating this space you’ll discover that you are not your anger, your fear or your pain. You are much larger
than that.
Think of embracing your difficult emotion in your arms like a mother holding her upset child.
4. Realize The Impermanence Of All Emotions
Acknowledge that all emotions are impermanent. They arise, stay for a while and then disappear. They come and go in you like waves in the sea, cresting and receding.
Your task is simply to allow this current wave to be and to witness, with patience, as it continuously changes form and eventually disappears.
We often take emotions (especially negative ones) very personally but mindfulness invites us to view them as simply mental events passing through- temporary waves in our ocean of awareness.
Psychologist and mindfulness teacher Elisha Goldstein suggests, it can be helpful to say to ourselves, “While this is a temporary feeling, it is here right now, how can I care for it, what do I need?”
5. Investigation & Response
When you are calm enough, you can look deeply into your emotion to understand what has brought it about, and what is causing your discomfort.
It may be that particular kinds of thoughts were the cause. You may have been worrying unnecessarily about something or someone and that generated feelings of anxiety. Perhaps you were ruminating on a random comment a colleague said last week and it created anger or embarrassment.
You may also find that you have particular values, beliefs, expectations and judgments about how you should behave or be seen by others that contributed to the emotion.
Perhaps an event has happened and your response is perfectly natural or perhaps an old habitual reaction. Allow the light of your mindful awareness to help you gain insights into the emotion.
You may then reflect on how you want to respond to what is happening. This may be take the form of simply realizing that your thoughts are not reality and therefore not taking them seriously.
It could be that the simple embracing of the emotion is all you need to do for now, or it could be that a response is needed to a situation that has arisen in your daily life.
Trust yourself to choose the appropriate response.
6. Be Open To Outcome
Love, Melli
You have some wonderful insights above already. I do agree with Gareth, that there is no contradiction with certain practices. Mindfulness is a way of being rather than being a particular type of practice. You need not worry that certain practices of meditation will clash or reduce the effects of one another. In reality all meditations are really practices of mindfulness. You could say that meditation is simply the formal practice of mindfulness.
As was mentioned, you can sit mindfully (as in formal meditation), mow the lawn mindfully or brush your teeth in the same manner.
Whats more important really is truly understanding what it is to embody this mindful way of being.
Your experiencing anxiety and this is a wonderful opportunity to use mindfulness.
As Suryacitta mentioned, in times of unwanted emotion we often want to escape the pain, drown it out or push it away somehow. We want it to stop. All these ways of avoiding pain only perpetuate it in the long run. Avoidance creates suffering and keeps us from living fully, this miraculous and precious life that we have.
Instead of ‘turning away’ from pain in avoidance we can learn to gently ‘turn towards’ what we’re experiencing. We can bring a caring open attention toward the wounded part of ourselves and then from there make wise choices about how to respond to ourselves and to life. For you, that may be in that moment - a choice to take a deep slow breath.
Your not avoiding the emotion here. Your mindfully attending to it and then it may well be that your response is to slow the breath and even sooth the mind with the thought - "I am actually ok here and now. I am safe".
That would be a mindful response rather than an unconscious reaction of just wanting the pain to stop.
I recently posted a blog on this website is with i detailed a 6 step process for dealing with difficult emotions. I think you'll find it very helpful so i'll paste the steps here....
Here is a six step process for mindfully dealing with difficult emotions…
1. Stop, Turn Towards
Once you have become aware of the feeling, stop for a moment. Take a deep breath and then ‘sit with’ the anger, shame, guilt, anger, anxiety, frustration and fear. Don’t inhibit it, suppress it, ignore it or try to conquer it. Just be with it with an attitude of open curiosity and acceptance.
2. Identify The Emotion
Acknowledge the emotion is there. If you are embarrassed, you can specifically recognize that feeling. You can mentally say to yourself, for example, “I know there is embarrassment in me.”
3. Acceptance Of What Is
When you are embarrassed, or feeling another difficult emotion, you don’t need to deny it. You can accept what is present. In his book Peace is Every Step, Thich Nhat Hahn suggest we actually mentally acknowledge to ourselves…
“I can accept that I am experiencing intense embarrassment right now.”
Through your mindful acceptance you can embrace or hold the feeling in your awareness– this alone can calm and soothe you. This is an act of self-compassion and responsiveness to your own distress, and it is so much more effective than punishing yourself for having this feeling.
See if you can open to feeling what you feel. Opening to it means to see what is there fully without suppressing, rejecting, ignoring or trying to be ‘stronger’ than the emotion.
By opening and embracing the emotion you create a mental space around it and witness it instead of being enmeshed in it. Be creating this space you’ll discover that you are not your anger, your fear or your pain. You are much larger
than that.
Think of embracing your difficult emotion in your arms like a mother holding her upset child.
4. Realize The Impermanence Of All Emotions
Acknowledge that all emotions are impermanent. They arise, stay for a while and then disappear. They come and go in you like waves in the sea, cresting and receding.
Your task is simply to allow this current wave to be and to witness, with patience, as it continuously changes form and eventually disappears.
We often take emotions (especially negative ones) very personally but mindfulness invites us to view them as simply mental events passing through- temporary waves in our ocean of awareness.
Psychologist and mindfulness teacher Elisha Goldstein suggests, it can be helpful to say to ourselves, “While this is a temporary feeling, it is here right now, how can I care for it, what do I need?”
5. Investigation & Response
When you are calm enough, you can look deeply into your emotion to understand what has brought it about, and what is causing your discomfort.
It may be that particular kinds of thoughts were the cause. You may have been worrying unnecessarily about something or someone and that generated feelings of anxiety. Perhaps you were ruminating on a random comment a colleague said last week and it created anger or embarrassment.
You may also find that you have particular values, beliefs, expectations and judgments about how you should behave or be seen by others that contributed to the emotion.
Perhaps an event has happened and your response is perfectly natural or perhaps an old habitual reaction. Allow the light of your mindful awareness to help you gain insights into the emotion.
You may then reflect on how you want to respond to what is happening. This may be take the form of simply realizing that your thoughts are not reality and therefore not taking them seriously.
It could be that the simple embracing of the emotion is all you need to do for now, or it could be that a response is needed to a situation that has arisen in your daily life.
Trust yourself to choose the appropriate response.
6. Be Open To Outcome
Love, Melli
Melli is a mindfulness teacher, but first & foremost, a mindfulness practitioner. She runs regular retreats & courses around Australia & has a blog where she shares simple tips on mindful living for everyday people. Check out her website at http://mrsmindfulness.com/
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Wonderful post, Melli.
Inspirational stuff.
All good things, Jon
Inspirational stuff.
All good things, Jon
Jon leads the Everyday Mindfulness group meditation on Zoom every Monday/Friday, 6pm London-time. FREE.
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