Internal dialogue

[Peanut]

Hello!
I was wondering what people do when they meditate in terms of the internal commentary that the mind continuously creates. When the audio tells me to focus on my breath or the sensations in my body or the sounds that I can hear I naturally go "Okay listen to your breath, that is your breath, I am thinking about my breath etc." I just have such a monkey mind and I cannot get out of it! When I really try to feel I am still thinking about what I am doing. Is this okay? Or does anyone have any tips of how to move away from this internal commentary - it appears the harder I fight it the stronger it comes back! I always hear to move beyond the veil of thinking but it seems my conditioning is pretty deep set.

Also I know we can be mindful of our thoughts but should we accept them all or should I deny ones that are particularly warped? I am learning to be with everything, not not fight the state we are in, or try to reach a different one but it seems I am believing some of my worst thoughts "why can't you just be happy" "stop overthinking it all" "You are going to be thinking about thinking forever" etc. I am trying to learn how to bring self compassion to these thoughts but I still seem to naturally get hooked into them and spiral emotionally, leaving me feeling isolated and mental.

Sharing any advice or similar experiences would be greatly appreciated!

[Peter]

Hi peanut,

I think a bit of self commentary is 'normal'. However when it becomes too much, I can understand that it drives you 'crazy'. I think you should indeed try to feel more than rationalizing everything. Just try to notice the self comment every time, and then try to let go of that and start feeling again. But don't beat yourself up about it either. It's not good or bad. It's just how you work (for now), and that's fine! Just keep noticing it! It will probably diminish over time, by itself!

For your other question. You should accept all thoughts! 'Good' or 'bad'; they are already there! Just notice them, and accept that they are there! However, if you cannot accept these thought, notice and accept that!

Peter

[JonW]

"Also I know we can be mindful of our thoughts but should we accept them all or should I deny ones that are particularly warped?"

As Peter says, mindfulness involves acceptance. In terms of thoughts, that means, among other things, the acceptance that they are merely thoughts, "mere secretions of the mind" as Kabat-Zinn puts it.
Wishing thoughts away invariably serves to intensify them, and back they come.
The average person has something like 76,000 thoughts a day. Some of those are useful and worth acting on. eg. "I'm meeting my boss at mid-day. I'd better get myself ready and ensure I arrive at the meeting on time."
Most thoughts are not useful. eg. "Why am I such a loser? Why do I never get any good luck? Why are my relationships always so disastrous."
We can act on the useful thought and simply notice that we are having the other sort of thought. We learn to notice without being caught up in the content of the thought.
Remember: thoughts are only powerful if we grant them that power.
So, denying doesn't come into it. In any case, how can we deny what has already arrived? (That thought about the ex-girlfriend, that harsh judgment on ourself). Instead, we welcome, we turn towards. This takes a lot of practice, a lot of patience, and an awful lot of self-compassion.
Go easy on yourself,
Jon, Hove

[Gareth]

how can we deny what has already arrived?

Exactly.

[Peanut]

Thank you guys so much. It is really nice to see such kind and understanding responses. Sometimes this forum serves as a little anchor for me when I am caught up in my monkey mind, now I just really need to work on my anchor within the body itself

After reading your responses I have already begun to catch myself! I have since made two mantras for when non-useful thoughts come up and I am in either a neutral/happy mood or when I am in a doomed/sad mood.

The neutral is "Hello, you are just a thought, you are not reality, you are just a story. Be gentle with yourself"

The upset/obsessive/neurotic is "Hello it is okay that you are here. I am patient, persistent and kind. This all takes time. But I will not give you power and you will pass like all thoughts."

Is this a normal thing to do - make mantras? In my times of stress I have really been trying to come into my body but it hasn't been working, I think when I am too far gone my mind acts like an impenetrable fortress so focusing on my breath loses stamina quickly. But this way I am using my mind in a positive and productive way and once I say these sentences to myself I feel a little more calm and able to anchor myself in my body sensations.

[JonW]

"Is this a normal thing to do - make mantras? "

Whatever works for you, Peanut.
But try bearing in mind that, as Pema Chodron has written, meditation is not about getting out of ourselves or achieving something better. It’s about getting in touch with what you already are. If thoughts are whirling about, just notice that they are whirling. Most thinking is just subconscious gossip, white noise...let it be.
Cheers,
Jon

[Peter]

Hi peanut,

I agree with Jon, and I'd like to add: watch out for becoming too enthusiastic all of of a sudden. There's a real danger that you're setting yourself up for a big disappointment. I would just keep this as simple as possible, just notice it, be with it for a short time, and move on. I wouldn't do the mantras, as I think it can become another obsession; especially since you've already a problem with 'an inner voice', and it can distract from just being with what is.

Goodluck!

Peter