Slacker looking for a way to save time meditating

[Bert]

I can do that; thanks.

[Matt Y]

The idea that we are supposed to be aware that we are thinking is a bit idealistic / unrealistic.
When we lose focus it's because unconscious processes in our mind take over. We can't be conscious of the unconscious!

It may be useful to broaden your attention when you meditate. Instead of trying to focus exclusively on the breath, let yourself be aware of other things going on in the background, including sounds, sensations, thoughts, memories etc.

[Bert]

I need something systematic to follow with a little variety, otherwise I lose interest. I plan on trying something new:during the first 5 breaths I will do a body scan, next five breaths I will focus on the sounds around me including my breath, following 5 breaths I will focus on my stomach rising and falling. I know it appears that I am trying too hard, and I probably am. After reading books, consulting with a teacher, attending a retreat, and meditating for 2 hrs/day for the past 3 months, I am startinf to feel burned out. I know I am supposed to not focus on the benefits, but my one part of me laughs everytime I adopt that mindset.

So I have headd and read it many times that we need to be aware that we are thinking WHILE we are thinking. Do you think the people who say this just mean that we should be aware before and after thoughts?

[JonW]

'So I have heard and read it many times that we need to be aware that we are thinking WHILE we are thinking. Do you think the people who say this just mean that we should be aware before and after thoughts?'

I have absolutely no idea what that means. Where did you read it? It sounds unnecessarily complicated. Mindfulness is a very simple practice.
Cheers,
Jon

[Bert]

"When you do this, you can become more aware of your thoughts, emotions and physical sensations as they are happening"

"Another important part of mindfulness is an awareness of our thoughts and feelings as they happen moment to moment."

"Through practice, you can become better at watching your thoughts as they happen (this is the essence of meditation)"

Just did a Google search and came up with the three quotes. N

[Bert]

I did a lot of searching on google with my question, and someone asked a similar question, and this is what someone responded in Quora which kind of makes sense, but is a bit tough to grasp: "You have answered the question itself. As soon as you start observing a thought , it is gone. There arises another thought in that vaccum ... it goes on for a while till you become aware that you are thinking and change your mode to observe ... now this thought is gone. The more you observe the flow , the closer you come to being a witness."

[Matt Y]

Hi Bert,

It is possible to be aware of your thoughts while they are happening. In psychology this would be referred to as meta-cognition. If you journal, then you're probably aware of your thoughts as they are happening, because you are writing them down, and therefore observing (or witnessing) them.

However, it's not quite so easy to do in daily life, or during meditation. For much of the time you will be either caught up in your thinking, or you'll find, as the Quora reponse suggests, that your thoughts are interrupted by the process of becoming aware of them.

You can also reflect back (to become aware of thoughts). Ask yourself: "What was I just thinking about." Awareness of thoughts doesn't have to happen in the moment. It can also happen through reflection. In fact, it can be more useful to recall what you were thinking about than to try and catch it in the moment. In this way you may begin to see what type of thoughts stir you up, and what kind of thoughts help to calm you down.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. You will benefit from meditation regardless of whether your experience aligns with what others have written and said.

Two hours a day is a fair bit of meditation to do if it feels onerous.
There would be no harm in halving that, and giving yourself a day or two off here and there. Go easy, especially if you're feeling discouraged. Three months is not long. I compare learning to meditate with learning to walk. It takes most of us a good year to learn that. And we can take the same attitude an infant does as it learns to walk: it doesn't even concern itself with the goal.

On the other hand, you probably do need to feel that you're getting some benefit from the practice. Perhaps you need to focus a bit more on any signs of comfort, relaxation and pleasure. Meditation certainly doesn't have to be arduous.

[JonW]

Bert, awareness of thoughts is not the same thing as thinking about thinking.
I can be aware of a sunset without thinking about the sunset. I can be aware of the taste of a strawberry without thinking about it. I can be aware of my breathing without thinking about it.
Resting in awareness is not thinking. It is simply being.
'If thoughts are whirling about, let them be, like dancing snowflakes in empty space.' (Toni Packer: The Wonder Of Presence)
Cheers,
Jon

[Peter]

However, it's not quite so easy to do in daily life, or during meditation. For much of the time you will be either caught up in your thinking, or you'll find, as the Quora reponse suggests, that your thoughts are interrupted by the process of becoming aware of them.

You can also reflect back (to become aware of thoughts). Ask yourself: "What was I just thinking about." Awareness of thoughts doesn't have to happen in the moment. It can also happen through reflection. In fact, it can be more useful to recall what you were thinking about than to try and catch it in the moment. In this way you may begin to see what type of thoughts stir you up, and what kind of thoughts help to calm you down.

I totally agree with Matt. I've been practicing mindfulness intensely for almost 4 years, and I still experience a lot of difficulty witnessing thoughts while they are happening. My thoughts almost always pull me in, and when my subconscious notices it, I become aware, and I recall what I was thinking about. The 'snapping out of the thoughts' becomes quicker with practice, and the recalling becomes easier, but it remains hard to witness thoughts like passing 'clouds in the sky'. I guess people are wired differently.

It would be pretty cool to have a poll on our forum, about this. It might be comforting to people who have trouble with this. If my fellow team members agree, I'll set it up!

Peter

PS I also, very much, agree with what Jon said!

[JonW]

Splendid idea, Peter. It is an area ripe for further discussion.
Of course it is natural for us to want the mind chatter to cease but it never does. If we're lucky, it slows down, it quietens. Then there'll be days when it's not so quiet.
Internal weather/external weather. Always changing.
As one of the early instructions have it: 'If your mind wanders a hundred times, then simply bring it back a hundred times.'
The basic sitting/breathing practice gives us the chance to begin again and again and again. We begin with this breath. Then this breath. Then this breath.
If we buy into the idea that we are mastering out thoughts in some way, so the striving begins.
Essentially we need to get out of our own way. But that's another story...
Cheers,
JW