Hi. Newbie and a simple but daft question.

[Cjwinyorks]

Hello all. I've been trying this mindfulness and breath counting meditation for a short while.
What I am wondering is that I'm doing a mixture of breath counting, body scans and safe haven visualisations. Very relaxing. I see members use them to help sleep. I am learning to let thoughts come and go.
But there's also supposed to be a strong element of being in the now. What's happening right now and stop rehashing the past etc. Being present.
My question finally :- I'm feeling the above exercises are taking me into myself and out of the room. Almost anti-now. So anti-now that people use them to fall asleep. I feel my breaths or parts of my body and the room goes away.
Why aren't I sat just listening to the clock, how the cushion feels, the noises of the house etc. Surely that's more Now?

[JonW]

Hi Cjwinyorks,
Welcome to the forum.
How are you going about learning mindfulness, may I ask? No criticism intended but your approach does seem a little scattershot. What are safe haven visualisations, for instance?
You might benefit from working with a teacher. https://www.everyday-mindfulness.org/online-courses/
If that doesn't appeal, it is possible to learn from a book but that's a very different experience. The one I usually recommend is Finding Peace In A Frantic World by Mark William and Danny Penman.
Either way, a structured approach is highly recommended.
All good things,
Jon

[Matt Y]

Hi cjw

Your practice sounds fine to me, though it also sounds like you have defined 'now' in a particularly way: that is, now means to you something like "being aware of my surroundings, including what I can feel and hear around me."

This is part of "the now", but so too are the sensations of breath and body and your thoughts about what you are experiencing.

Yes, that's right, even your thoughts are occurring in "the now" - though they could be about the past or future.

In my opinion, using meditation to fall asleep is perfectly valid. Whatever works!

When you say "I feel my breaths or parts of my body and the room goes away." that sounds like you are just very well focused on your breath. That's good. Good focus tends to result in pleasant feelings, deep relaxation and mental stillness. And when you are well focused on one thing, you won't be so aware of other things. For example, imagine focusing intently on what you can see directly in front of you. In that case, you won't be aware of what's behind you. The same happens with all sensory experience. For example, if you focus exclusively on what you can hear, you probably won't be so aware of what you feel, or what you think.

Listening to the clock, how the cushion feels and the noises around the house is fine, but no more a part of the "now" than any other phenomenon you may tune in to.

[Tubster]

Hi Cjwinyorks,

I have recently been concerned with the idea of the 'self' and how the term is used by mindfulness practitioners. I have sat through meditations which explore the idea of the 'intrinsic self'. I prefer this to be called mindful compassion, as we are learning to be more compassionate of ourselves in a moment where our breath, thoughts, sounds and sensations are literally all over the place.

I'm not sure there is any such thing as the 'self'. It's something that makes me sad at times, but after practicising for 2 years I've learnt to let go of this abstract and unattainable idea.

I would recommend a more consistent practice under the guidance of a teacher as mentioned by JonW, and in terms of reading, 'Finding peace in a frantic world' is a great place to start. I also agree with MattY. What ever you can direct the flashlight of mindful consciousness on is in itself evidence of being mindful.

Lastly, sleep is a strange one. I have actually wondered about mindful sleep, but like the 'self' I feel it's unattainable because what happens during sleep is a mystery.

Thank you for this awesome question.

Tubster

[JonW]

'I have recently been concerned with the idea of the 'self' and how the term is used by mindfulness practitioners.'

In my experience, mindfulness teachers vary greatly in terms of how the notion of "self" is introduced, if at all, on 8-week courses.
It's a very delicate area as some people might be inclined to react fearfully if the idea of a fixed self is in any way questioned.
My own approach as a mindfulness teacher is to address the issue only if it is brought up by a client and, even then, I am very wary about venturing into discussions about non-duality or questions like "what is self?"
It's a fascinating subject area.
Cheers,
Jon

[Peter]

I totally agree with what the others said. I like to add:

Visualizations aren't typically considered a part of mindfulness. However, there are more techniques that work apart from mindfulness. A wise person knows when to 'use' what.

Sometimes it's smart to be mindful of the now, sometimes it's smart to distract oneself, sometimes it's smart to meditate,
sometimes it's smart to use visualizations, sometimes it's smart to use deep breathing etcetera.. Some of these things can also be combined, of course.

A very interesting talk about the 'power' of visualizations:

Martin L. Rossman
How Your Brain Can Turn Anxiety into Calmness
https://youtu.be/KYJdekjiAog

Peter

[JonW]

Excellent points one and all, Peter.
In Issue At Hand, Gil Fronsdal writes, "Mindfulness places us where choice is possible."
I love that quote.
It's sometimes easy to forget that mindfulness isn't about behaving in a prescribed way. It's so much about realising a space around thoughts, feelings, situations etc. where choice is possible.
A nice cup of tea now, methinks.
X Jon (In His Tent)