the ups and downs of mindfulness

[JonW]

"So what you are saying is I should just sit down and meditate the days that I feel like s***, until I find a solution?"

I don't think anyone is suggesting that. Again, it's best to approach meditation without any goal or solution in mind.

[BioSattva]

So what you are saying is i should just sit down and meditate the days that i feel like shit. untill i find a solution? thats basicly what i do and the soultion is different everytime. last week it was "stay with the body" and whenever i focused on that, i instantly got back into the now and felt great. This week it doesnt work tough and i have to firgure out a new one..

Hi srdk6, I wrote about what may be happening here on another thread before to another forum member. We have some success with our practice and feel we are making progress, and the next time we try to copy what we did before, instead of return to the free, open state that generated our previous success. We are almost like an actor trying to act the same scene that occurred before, and yet in life it's never the same scene or movie - each moment has it's own particular uniqueness. As JonW said:

it's best to approach meditation without any goal or solution in mind.

It seems your goal is to recreate the situation that happened before - like to make the positive unfolding that happened into a kind of formula to prescribe as a kind of medicine for a situation. This approach will never work because mindfulness operates beyond conscious effort - the true medicine is our free, open, fluid mind and body which knows how to treat and heal itself. Trying to act out what happened before is like taking medicine with the sealed plastic wrapper still on and wondering why it doesn't work. Letting go of what happened before - letting go of any thought; memory, judgement, etc. - is the act of unwrapping the medicine latent within your own being, and if you can do that patiently while simply observing in a detached way, then mindfulness will be likely to 'work' much better for you it seems.

The underlying key fo me, which hasn't been highlighted enough, in my opinion, by the mainstream MBSR teachers, is the detached monitoring of tension - both psychological and physical - and it's mind-body relationship during formal mindful practice, and dropping the need to do something - out of curiosity to see whether, indeed as promised, the tensions will dissolve as if by a miracle when allowed to exist in an accepting way. In my experience this 'miracle' does occur. We can get to the point of frustration in practice whereby we have absolutely nothing to lose by approaching in this way - only however many minutes sat in curiosity. Not much to give up when one considering the benefits 'promised' by scientists.

Concerning having the goal of having no goals, I intend to post a thread to clarify this much-used concept on this forum, since I think it can be confusing. How can one have the goal to have no goals? It can be confusing to comprehend can easily sound like some lofty-wafty zen speak; "The art of fighteeng widdout fighteeng".

When one is putting a formal practice in place - still getting the feel, of course one has goals. As the practice deepens and solidifies the goals can and should be dropped, however. I think posters should be clearer about this when they post, since advice about what one should do is being shared - i.e. a goal to hit, but then people say one shouldn't have goals. When practices are being installed of course practitioners are looking for signals that they are 'doing it right' - they have specific goals in mind - even achieving 3 minutes of seated mindfulness is a worthy goal of course.

It seems one can be mindful of one's pursuit of goals and all the unhealthy tension involved in that and get into mindfulness this way.

[JonW]

Again, beautifully put, BioSattva.
When I first started meditating, I would get frustrated when it didn't seem to be "working". I soon realised why I wasn't getting the benefits. Either I was in thrall to the past, trying to recreate what had occurred during previous meditations. Or I was in thrall to the future - thinking about goals such as, "I want this practice to make me more relaxed."
The "trick" is to be wholly in the present, attentively. No past, no future. "Just this."
Like anything worthwhile, it takes time and patience.
As Pema Chodron writes in 'When Things Fall Apart', "The trick is to keep exploring and not bail out. even when we find out that something is not what we thought. That's what we're going to discover again and again and again. Nothing is what we thought. Emptiness is not what we thought. Neither is mindfulness or fear. Compassion - not what we thought. Love. Courage. These are words that point to what life really is when we let things fall apart and let ourselves be nailed to the present moment."

[GianKarlo]

Projecting mindfulness does helps in some ways but at the same time needs to stat with yourself too so you can achieve the mindful living success.

[David]

Hi

I would also say that you need some self compassion and to suspend judgement about yourself

Thanks Jenna. Your message here speaks volumes; but without the need to read. I think it's the equation those scientist have been looking for. Definitely rings for me.
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John W - Great insights. Did not read is all as Jenna's quote there kind of made me pause, but I did skim enough to see we think alike on various things. I like John Kabat-Zin Too. He has a lot of good sayings - but so do you.

I hear you, on the issue of how it is, that so many struggle when it comes to simply sitting and doing nothing else. Perhaps I am lazy - I use a hammock. LOL. hehe.

Makes me think of a good friend who can't live for two seconds without his phone. Always has to have a signal on top of that! Sigh ... He is a good chap though and I learn heaps from him. Like me, he has a minds that buzzes full of bright ideas and always wanting to share, but your spot on John - with many of us, when it comes to taking a seat.

Ever since we have been able to go wireless - I think it's even become worse for the Next Gen - Alas ... I'll pull up short here and focus on your insights before allowing my cynical side to get the best of me. Your very mention of it - makes me want to grab my hammock, compact - go for a mindless walk - do some breathing in an upright positing sitting in smack bang in middle of my hammock ... Mind You though - only for about several seconds, before I crash into the asymmetrical position and switch off completely.

Seriously - I can't but help smile when thinking of such a thing, as too - so many question how it is that they even fall to sleep. For me - It's the walk and journey to get into such a position and how much more I feel renewed for just giving in - is simply awesome ... Like Jenna was saying about going easy on one self - It's perfect ... just doing what comes to mind without much thought - just doing what comes natural ... It saddens me how so often people play up and sell these concepts and how so many people are struggling with the activity of doing nothing special at all. Not knowing - yet wanting to know all - in striving to feel the words when kabat himself yearn for others to hear his words "I don't Know" "it's OK no too"

I think about all this need for self improvement sold with wellbeing and even twisted into meditative practices - but then also think about how right johns quote of:
“Meditation is the only intentional, systematic human activity which at bottom is about not trying to improve yourself or get anywhere else, but simply to realize where you already are.”
― Jon Kabat-Zinn, Wherever You Go, There You Are

[David]

Hi

I would also say that you need some self compassion and to suspend judgement about yourself

Thanks Jenna. Your message here speaks volumes; but without the need to read. I think it's the equation those scientist have been looking for. Definitely rings for me.
_______________________________________________

John W - Great insights. I have not read the entire thread as Jenna's quote there kind of made me pause, but I did skim enough to see we think alike on various things. I like John Kabat-Zin Too. He has a lot of good sayings - but so do you.

I hear you, on the issue of how it is, that many of us struggle when it comes to simply sitting and doing nothing else. Perhaps I am lazy - I use a hammock. LOL. hehe.

Makes me think of a good friend who can't live for two seconds without his phone. Always has to have a signal on top of that! Sigh ... He is a good chap though and I learn heaps from him. Like me, he has a minds that buzzes full of bright ideas and always wanting to share, but your spot on John - with many of us, when it comes to taking a seat.

Ever since we have been able to go wireless - whilst it opens many doors and allows for high speed and super connectivity, it's also equally detrimental to our minds as well ... (That's another story that plagues me for one) I'll pull up short here and focus on your insights before allowing my cynical side to get the best of me. Your very mention of it - makes me want to grab my hammock, compact - go for a mindless walk - do some breathing in an upright positing sitting in smack bang in center of my hammock ... Mind You though - only for about several seconds, before I crash into the asymmetrical position and switch off completely.

Seriously - I can't but help smile when thinking of such a thing, as too - so many question how it is that they even fall to sleep. For me - It's the walk and journey to get into such a position and how much more I feel renewed for just giving in - is simply awesome ... Like Jenna was saying about going easy on one self - It's perfect ... just doing what comes to mind without much thought - just doing what comes natural ... It saddens me how so often people play up and sell these concepts and how so many people are struggling with the activity of doing nothing special at all. Not knowing - yet wanting to know all - in striving to feel the words when kabat himself yearn for others to hear his words "I don't Know" "it's OK no too"

I think about all this need for self improvement sold with wellbeing and even twisted into meditative practices - but then also think about Kabat-Zin's quote:

“Meditation is the only intentional, systematic human activity which at bottom is about not trying to improve yourself or get anywhere else, but simply to realize where you already are.”
― Jon Kabat-Zinn, Wherever You Go, There You Are

I'm all for that.