mindfulness during a depressive episode

[guy]

I came to mindfulness about a year ago by chance and having recurrent depression over many years, thought it must be attempted. I got on a local Uni 8 week course but was considered not yet fit enough, being in very low mood. So it was deferred a little and then I completed it and have been practising ever since.
What interests me is the effect that meditation can have on you even though you are in a state of depression and I will try to explain the situation from my perspective.
Traditionally the meditation is considered for people who are out of depression, and the advice is to wait til things are better before attempting it. But ive seen a couple of interviews (mark Williams) in which they've become aware that it can be beneficial right in the thick of it. So I hit another depression afew weeks ago probably sparked by a health issue(I have menieres and you get very unpredictable attacks of vertigo, and in my case a drop attack in which you just collapse very suddenly; this means handing in driving license and a host changes in lifestyle.
At first I was very disappointed to be one of th 45% who go on to relapse after the mbct course, but determined to keep at the practice.
This time it became very apparent to me how much rumination plays in prolonging the illness and what I do is turn every possible rumination into a meditation. in fact I am doing an awful lot of meditation at present;some of it hits the mark as it were and other times the thoughts bombard too much. But all the time you are meditating you cant be ruminating and this must be doing some good. So I do bodyscans and sitting sessions and a little walking and listening.
Anyway the effects and differenced seem to be the following.
I sleep well ,no waking up at 3am in a cold sweat.
I can concentrate better than previous occasion. I can read a book
There is far less anxiety involved
My eating hasn't been affected.
These are all areas that in the past have been an integral part of depression. What remains is emptiness, lack of motivation and a sort of meaninglessness. So im getting some symptoms but not others and I feel very hopeful that ill get through this in weeks rather than months and then finally in my right mind get stuck in to the mindfulness.
Just a small 2nd point that has been puzzling me. On the MBCT course we were encouraged to feel emotions in our bodies and then hold them a little, give them space, not be averse etc. However it hit me a lot that when youre taking medication(which I do) you are far less able to feel emotion in the body. So this was a part of the course that frustrated me and I don't really see a solution. Later, I could see that as my mood sank, had I been able to feel those bodily sensations in small ways I would have had more warning of what was round the corner. As it was I felt a wash of feelings as the depression hit, but too late. I wonder if anyone else has this problem.
Thanks for listening! Like the site Guy

[JonW]

Hello Guy.
Great post.
Glad to hear that mindfulness is having a positive effect on your life.
I'm afraid I don't have any answers re. taking medication and feeling bodily sensations. Anyone?
Hope you stick around on the forum. We're a friendly bunch and will always do our best to help out when we can.
All best,
Jon, Hove

[Gareth]

Great to see that this is helping you. Mindfulness is a wonderful thing that has the capacity to help people with so many different issues.

I have MS and mindfulness keeps me from living the horrific futures that the mind can create.

The thing is, every mind is different and mindfulness means something different to all of us, so it's great to hear your story.

[piedwagtail91]

great post , it sums it up very well.
i did my mindfulness course in 2011 and i've had two 'relapses' since. like you i did feel a bit disappointed, but also like you i noticed that i learnt a lot more about how depression works, the rumination etc.
i'm not on meds, i came off before i did my course, so was very aware of what i was experiencing in my body.
my second relapse although it was pretty deep only lasted three weeks.
i was very aware of what was happening. it wasn't pleasant but mindfulness made it bearable.
from you're post you have a great awareness of what's happening which is a great help.
when it comes to motivation, i have a voluntary job in mindfulness. just having to turn in sit in a session, maybe lead a sitting practice was difficult but, as it says in the mindful way workbook, 'motivation works backwards in depression'.
you have to do something in order to feel better rather than wait till you feel better to do something.
a pretty tall order when you're depressed.
but it does help if you can take on small things as long as it's wrapped up in compassion and encouragement and not criticism and forcing yourself to do something.
start small, even cleaning out a cupboard, writing a letter, going for a walk can all help with the lack of motivation.
once you've done something, no matter how small, give yourself a lot of credit for doing it, it makes the next thing you do easier.
voluntary work has helped me a lot it gives a purpose in life and helps with feelings of self worth.
mick

[JonW]

Also I'd recommend two books in particular:
The Mindful Way Through Depression by Mark Williams & co.
Mindfulness For Black Dogs & Blue Days by Richard Gilpin.
You might be interested in reading my interview with Richard Gilpin on the main site. http://www.everyday-mindfulness.org/int ... rd-gilpin/
All best,
Jon, Hove

[guy]

Many thanks for those replies, Jon, Gareth and piedwagtail, its very encouraging to be in contact and to hear the views of others.
As regards meds, its very frustrating to be in the position of having to continue for the time being as you are aware that mindfulness is doing some good, in fact a lot of good, but not the full works. Having been on it so long it s very risky to come off in the short term but I will see the results of my present regime and weigh up the risks in the near future.
Depression is often about loss and when suddenly you cant lead the active life you were used to, it can all collapse quickly. On the other hand if youre dependant on that life of constant activity and distraction for your well being, then its not a very sustainable way of living anyway. I guess I had got used to supressing the voices by running and now practicing mindfulness its brought home to me that you have to deal with them rather than escape them. Eventually it all catches up with you in the end!
As regards MS, my mother had the illness and I can understand , Gareth the trials of that. MD is similar in its unpredictability, and each person get different symptoms and severity. It all takes time to adapt to what still can be done and leaving the previous life behind. But its very encouraging to know that you have been so helped by your meditation in that regard.
What Ill do is wait til this present episode subsides, see what the landscape looks like and then get a little advice about coming off meds, there must be someone out there who has done it even after a very long spell on them and has used mindfulness to fill the gap as it were.
Incidently, the MBCT course I did at Exeter uni has reunions every 2 months, for people on courses going back almost 10 years, That's very useful and theyre well attended. What I don't get is how I only came across mindfulness a year ago, cant see how it slipped my notice.
Youre quite right about motivation piedwagtail, you need to force yourself into action to get any positive feedback and this is what I do. Meditation too is aform of action and ive found its the opposite of rumination which is so damaging and compounds the low mood. The mind volunteering for a job it cannot perform, as aquote from somewhere puts it.
Many thanks all. Guy

[JonW]

"What I don't get is how I only came across mindfulness a year ago, cant see how it slipped my notice."
I suspect that most people on the forum can identify with that: "Why didn't I discover mindfulness sooner…?"
I guess it finds us when we're ready for it.
Cheers, Jon

[piedwagtail91]

"you need to force yourself into action" try to encourage yourself like you would a good friend who was struggling rather than force, it's a subtle difference but an important one.
don't worry about the meds, it takes a long time to get off them, at least when the time to come off them is right you'll be able to do it mindfully!

[guy]

I thought id put down my thoughts about my present position on the mindfulness path.
When I last posted on this thread I was just beginning to emerge from a depression. Well now it seems im out of the woods, and although there are always many variables, I do put the swiftness of it down to the practice of meditation. I said before that I managed to meditate instead of ruminate and it paid off. In this regard I would suggest to anyone in the same position that its well worth persevering.
What I really want to do now is get off medication as I have been on it so long and attitudes have changed in recent years about the efficacy of SSRIs. It seems that for most people, long term, they are as good as a placebo, while at the same time blunting emotions and building up the big problem of how to withdraw.
I intend to use my practise of mindfulness plus running. Both these have been shown to be at least as effective as ADs. Exercise I know is of value, but different than meditation, as its a blunter and more temporary tool. The snag with it is that you can literally run away from your problems! Then they come back when you stop!
Im also doing Tai chi and a bit of yoga.
There are good websites about withdrawal, including Mad in America, they all stress the need for a good base to work from; support of various kinds. It can be an extremely painful experience,as, the withdrawal symptoms mimic the underlying condition and make people think that its all coming back again. You have to get through these hurdles and that's when the fall back of meditation, to me, will be all important.
Will keep you posted!
I really like this forum and have been reading the old posts with great interest. You cant get it from books, and there just aren't enough people locally to speak to face to face. I think, as someone has mentioned, creating local groups is the answer.

[JonW]

Hello Guy.
Great to hear you're doing so well. Long may it continue.
Meet-up groups are a wonderful idea. I run a mindfulness group in Brighton which now boasts 90 members. Average turn-out for a meet-up is ten. We do pubs in the winter and beach picnics in the summer.
I'm also a member of a non-duality group in Brighton.
It's dead easy to set one up yourself. Cost: around £2 a week to run.
Details here: https://secure.meetup.com/create/
Cheers, Jon