Mindfulness breathing *help

[westie]

Hello everyone! So I am new to this forum and since I've stumbled into a problem recently i decided to create an account and ask for your help.

I've been practicing mindfulness for a few months. I started with reading the Mindful way through depression and doing some of the exercises in the accompanying CD.

One of these is the mindfulness breathing exercise. In this they tell you to focus on your chest, abdominal, nostrils or wherever the breath is most vivid for you.

However, now when I've started to follow the mindful way workbook program (8 weeks) I've realized that in this book they specifically tell you to focus on your lower abdominal.

Before this I've been focusing on the chest (which have been working good, I can feel the breath in the abdominal aswell tho) and since I've always been a bit of a perfectionist this have been troubling my mind since I want to do the practice as good as possible.

So I've done some research and I found an interesting page stating that Diaphragmatic breathing (http://www.swamij.com/diaphragmatic-breathing.htm) is different from Abdominal breathing and apparently the deepest form of breathing, but there seems to be different meanings of this. Some people claim that Diaphragmatic breathing is the same as breathing with the abdominal and some seem to claim that the chest and the abdominal should not move while breathing with the diaphragm.

Anyways, what do you guys think? Is there any difference in breathing from chest or abdominal (diaphragm?) Since I am in the beginning of learning to meditate I want to get it right from the start so that I do not get to used to the wrong technique. I do understand that It's probably best to focus were you can feel the breath easy, but personally there is no difference in chest breathing or abdominal breathing for me at the moment, I just find myself switching attention between them because I feel confused. I do not really know how to breath with just the diaphragm tho.

Any thoughts of this is welcome, thank you!

[JonW]

Hi westie.
Welcome to the forum. Good to have you aboard.
In answer to your question I would say that there's no wrong technique, just whatever feels right to you.
It's easy to start over-thinking details such as these. In mindfulness meditation we're simply using the breath as an anchor, which we return to when our thoughts wander. There's no requirement to breathe "correctly", nor are we making an effort to breathe. Whatever is comfortable and comes most naturally to you.
I tend to focus on the sensation of my lungs filling with air, then emptying. Occasionally I notice the sensation at the end of my nostrils as air comes in and goes out. But I'm not directing my thoughts towards how I'm breathing. I'm just gently being attentive.
As with all things mindful I take the view that, if I'm thinking too much about any particular aspect of it, I simply drop the thought. In mindfulness, the simple answer tends to be the only answer. The pesky mind will always be looking to overcomplicate the practice. That's what minds do.
Hope this is helpful to you.
Do stick around. Hope to hear from you soon.
Have a cracking weekend.
Cheers,
Jon, Hove

[BioSattva]

Hi Westie.

Jon Kabat-Zinn says babies are great to learn from - they breath from the abdomen instinctively and lose it when they are older - probably due to stress.

Thich Nhat Hanh gives the instruction that mindfulness of the breath is as simple as knowing you are breathing in or out when you are doing so - it doesn't matter how you know that it is happening, it is just important to be there aware of it.

One aspect of allowing the breath to descend to the belly which I particularly like, and which may be the reason for, say, Japanese Zen schools (like Soto Zen) and various secular mindfulness resources to emphasise it, is that it gently massages the belly from inside and encourages knots and tensions being held there to begin to dissolve in much the same way as someone massaging one's shoulders. So in other words one is carrying around one's own personal internal masseur who is available at any point and wherever one is. I certainly enjoy recruiting that resource and 'indulging' in it during my formal seated meditations. Emotions tend to well up from the belly, so becoming sensitive in that area is hugely useful. There is as much 'brain tissue' as in a cat's skull in the human belly also - good to give it a 'chance to breath' as it were .

As Jon said above - natural is always good. Just watching the reflex - nature doing it's thing automatically. It's possible to kick back within one's posture, so to speak, and enjoy it all effortlessly unfolding.

Hope any of that helped.

Bio.

[Gareth]

I'm a nostril man myself.

I'd echo what Jon has said and urge you not to overthink it or convince yourself you are doing it 'wrong.'

There is no wrong way to meditate. Wherever you are attentive to the sensations of the breath is exactly the right place.

[piedwagtail91]

if you're going off the 30-40 minute cd track for the workbook, then john teasdale is only using the belly /abdomen as an example.
i haven't listened to the other tracks yet so couldn't comment on those.
personally i prefer nostrils, sometimes belly, almost never the chest.
just go to where is best for you.
i find it is better, as they suggest, to stay with one place as an anchor for the entire practice.
in sessions we usually begin by having people focus on the full journey of the breath, nostril to belly and back, then get them to notice (for roughly one breath ) at the nostrils, then chest , then belly, then we ask them to choose where ever is best or most vivid/comfortable..
ps
i've just followed your link and personally i wouldn't use that sort of breathing in mindfulness meditation.
if i've read it correctly you're controlling the breath and i don't feel thats mindfulness in the mbct sense because you're making it happen rather than just noticing.
i use a few breathing techniques or pranayama from yoga but not during mindfulness meditation.
mick

[JonW]

"personally i prefer nostrils, sometimes belly, almost never the chest."
Strangest chat-up line of all time.

[piedwagtail91]

i think a chat up line may include chest at least from a mindful seeing point

[JonW]

In Seinfeld, Jerry took a very mindful approach when advising George about the dangers of gawping at a woman's cleavage: "It's like looking at the sun. You don't stare at it. It's too risky. Ya get a sense of it and then you look away.”
Wise words.
Staring too long at the sun can damage your eyesight.

[BioSattva]

I feel like I'm down the pub .

[piedwagtail91]

I think it can probably damage other bits as well if a woman notices. Not just the ears either