Some confusing dualities

[Cheesus]

Hi Folks

Apologies if I appear to be posting a lot at the moment, but I am full of questions!

It appears to me that there are some pretty crucial dualities in mindfulness that need to be understood clearly. These are touched on and described in some detail by JKZ but I would like to hear your guys' points of view as well.

The first of these is an apparent contradiction between acceptance and action. Clearly we can't just accept everything - if I need a glass of water (to use a fairly clear cut example) I shouldn't just accept that I am thirsty, I should really go get myself a drink. There are times, though, when it is not clear whether one should accept or one should act.

The second is striving vs. non-striving. I'm not destined to be a Buddha, and I still need some goals and drives in my life. Moreover, by practicing mindfulness I feel I am aiming to do something for whatever purpose, which is essentially a striving. It's as though I am striving not to strive.

The above confusions are causing quite a lot of mental friction for me at the moment, and I am finding it difficult to essentially discover a consistent path. It somewhat undermines my faith in the entire project.

Thanks!
Cheesus

[Vixine]

Hey Cheesus

I have thought about these things as well. Here is what I think about acceptance, not sure if it will be helpful or not,

When it comes to acceptance, it is acceptance of what is - that does not mean we don't decide to move forward and do things or make changes (mindfully). Sometimes the best thing that can come out of mindfulness and accepting what is will be making a decision to change something that you are able to change, which will improve things. If you are thirsty, you can accept that you are thirsty and then get a glass of water and you feel better, and that is healthy. If you are being mindful and you start to notice that you are always thirsty or even dehydrated, you may even decide to stop drinking so much coffee or alcohol so that you feel healthier, and that can be a mindful decision. Deciding to get a glass of water doesn't mean that you didn't accept that you were thirsty, in fact if you are mindful of how you are feeling, you are more likely to notice that you are thirsty and that a glass of water would be good for you.

Does that even make sense?

When it comes to striving, I'll be interested to see what others post as well. I can still get myself pretty wrapped up and confused in that one as well.

[piedwagtail91]

apologies for a bit of a long post , this are what we put in our session notes regarding acceptance and striving,
5. NON-STRIVING
Our whole society is set up to reward achievement. Most of the time we are doing whatever we do for a purpose, to get somewhere. This is appropriate for some situations, but when we decide to step out of ‘doing’ and into ‘being’, as in mindfulness practice, we may find it is not so easy to stop striving. Trying to achieve anything by mindfulness practice gets in the way of meaningful change, because as soon as our attitude is focused on what we want, we have already abandoned the present moment for the desired future and forsaken acceptance of what is, in favour of craving something that is not yet. This might be seen when you sit down and think “I am going to get relaxed – or control my pain – or find inner peace – by doing this.” If we can just be with whatever is, be it calmness or chaotic thinking, relaxation or tension, comfort or pain, then things may change and our attitude to them has already changed.
This may seem paradoxical – of course we are practicing for a reason and of course we hope for some change. The central point here is that if you let go of trying to make things happen, then with patience and sustained regular practice, movement in the right direction for you will happen. If striving was effective, wouldn’t you have succeeded already? Mindfulness practice is a chance to try a profoundly different approach.

6. ACCEPTANCE
This is about seeing things as they actually are. If you have a headache, then just accept that you have a headache. Sometimes we are so concerned to get rid of unwelcome pain, feelings or thoughts that we don’t even accept that they are our present reality. This makes change more difficult, because then we are trying to move but not acknowledging where we are starting from – which makes it unlikely we will go in the right direction.
Acceptance may not be easy. If we suffer bereavement, or are diagnosed with cancer, we may go through periods of denial and anger before reaching acceptance. In daily life though, we often waste energy resisting the facts in more ordinary matters. If I am overweight, I do not have to keep on waiting till I reach some target weight before I start to like myself. This doesn’t mean I can’t lose weight, but accepting myself now will actually take away some of the self-dislike, which is one reason I keep over-eating and can’t find the motivation to take exercise. The same applies to many other changes in our lives. We can break the vicious circle of frustration, which maintains misery, with reality. As soon as we do, things are already better and we have energy for further change.
In mindfulness practice, we cultivate acceptance by taking each moment and each aspect of our experience just as they come, focusing on the present and being receptive to the flow of all that comes to us and passes on.


acceptance just means accepting your life as it is right now warts and all, not easy some times
being able to do that could mean you'll find the happiness and inner peace that mindfulness can bring.

constantly striving means that you're never at peace,never happy with yourself , you're always chasing some ideal or chasing perfection in your life.
not striving doesn't mean that you can't plan for the future or have goals.

[LucidMind]

Hi Cheesus,

You mentioned in another post that you are prone to obsessive anxiety, which probably contributes a great deal to your "mental friction".

Let me ask you this, will getting a very detailed answer to your question cure this mental friction, or will other "dualities" pop up that also stress you out? Having much anxiety myself, I find that I am never satisfied with an answer, I will always ruminate and come up with more questions. Just keep that in mind as you are mindful of your thoughts. Are they leading you in a positive direction? or are they just running in circles, causing you tension and stress, never leading anywhere? Mindfulness can take you of of this destructive thought pattern and help you realize that your thoughts are not YOU, and are not based in reality. Please keep that in mind as new questions and worries pop up. Now, to answer your questions to the best of my ability:

A. You should accept EVERYTHING, but accepting does not mean you can't take action. With your water example, you would realize you are thirsty, accept the feeling, and then do something about it! Once you are grounded in reality (in the present moment) you can make the best possible choices (and then take action). For example, maybe you are really not thirsty and you are trying to procrastinate, or maybe you are mindful and realize that you need to start drinking more water in general, before you even become thirsty. Basically, you can take action whenever you want to! But, you have to be MINDFUL of your action. Don't just do things on instinct. Don't just grab your glass of water without being AWARE of what you are doing. Action without awareness is mindlessness, and not a good thing.

B. You can talk yourself into circles with striving vs non-striving. You really have to give up on the whole notion. Mindfulness is about knowing yourself at the deepest possible level. That is all. Change comes naturally. Just be more mindful, make sure you practice formally every day, and change will happen. I like to start meditating by thinking "Hello *insert name*! I am going to get to know you more right now, and that is all". I try to take all aspects of striving out of the equation. Sometimes my mediation goes great (i get feelings of relaxation and compassion) and sometimes it is terrible (full of anxiety and tension). Both of these meditation sessions are valuable, because you have to know ALL parts of yourself.

Anyways, I hope I was able to help out a little bit. I am very prone to anxiety myself, and I really believe mindfulness is one of the best ways to "deal with it". I use quotations because you are not getting rid of anxiety, you are just getting rid of the suffering that comes a long with it.

[FeeHutch]

I am finding these replies very useful and hope they are providing you with what you need too Cheesus.

Vixine I followed your train of thought, it is so easy to tie ourselves up in knots trying to describe these things but taking Cheesus' water analogy was very easy for me to wrap my mind around.
Piedwagtail and LucidMind you both raise really interesting points, especially around the idea of ever being satisfied with the answers we find or are offered. Lots for me to reflect on there.

[JonW]

Hi Cheesus,
No apologies necessary. You are a valued member of this community and your questions are always welcome.
Again, these are only my opinions. I don't profess to be an expert, only a beginner.
Regarding accepting and acting. For me, this question is really about thinking. One of the first things we learn in mindfulness is that we are not our thoughts. This can seem confusing at first. My first reaction to that idea was, "Well, if these are not my thoughts, then whose thoughts are they?"
I take it to read that we are not just our thoughts and that the thoughts we do have can be divided into those that are useful to us and those that we can do without. If I feel thirsty, I'll think about having a glass of water, get up, and pour myself a glass from the jug. That's quite a useful, practical thought. If I drop the jug on the floor and it breaks, I might remind myself to buy a new jug from the store tomorrow. That's another useful thought and it's worth acting upon if I want to avoid drinking water straight from the tap.
I'm still feeling quite raw after breaking up with my girlfriend. I might find myself ruminating about what my ex-girlfrend is doing now, whether she's found a new boyfriend etc. Now that's quite an agonising thought. I don't really need to be caught up in thinking about my ex. So I'll acknowledge that I'm thinking about my ex and let the thought dissolve. It's only a thought. It has less power than a soap bubble in the scheme of things. So I let it go. There's no need for me to act on that thought.
In other words, we choose which thoughts to act on and those we let go.
As for striving and not striving, mindfulness is not saying that we shouldn't have goals and drives, only that we shouldn't get caught up in thinking about them endlessly. When Kabat-Zinn says, "Wherever you go, there you are," he is merely reminding us that we are always in the moment. That doesn't mean it's wrong to think, "I need to call Richard to remind him that the truck needs to be moved next Tuesday." Call Richard, give him the message. Done and dusted. No need to dwell on it and worry about it.
To paraphrase Brad Warner, author of Hadcore Zen, it's as if we're afraid to really commit to this moment because a better one might come along later. We cheat ourselves out of the present moment again and again and again. When this moment is all we have.
Pema Chodron writes, "We are like children building a sandcastle. We embellish it with beautiful shells, bits of driftwood and pieces of coloured glass. The castle is ours...yet, despite all our attachment, we know that the tide will inevitably come in and sweep the sandcastle away. The trick is to enjoy it fully but without clinging and, when the time comes, let it dissolve back into the sea."
With acceptance comes non-striving. Enjoy the sandcastle. Don't worry about the incoming tide. The tide will take care of itself.
Cheers, Jon

[JonW]

Apologies for any repetition there in my last post. The other posts beat me to it!

"I like to start meditating by thinking 'Hello *insert name*! I am going to get to know you more right now, and that is all'."
I love this idea and I've vowed to integrate it into my own meditation practice.
There's no striving in those words. Simply an open-hearted approach to formal practice. We sit, we close our eyes, we check in on ourselves. That's all we're doing - checking in, paying attention, getting to know ourselves better. Fundamentally it's no more complicated than that.
Our "difficulties" are not obstacles on that path. They ARE the path.

[Cheesus]

Wow thank you all for your responses! I can see you all put some considerable time into them and I really appreciate it.

As much as I would like to respond to each of them fully, I think the detail here prevents me really discussing each in great depth. However, there are a few things I have taken away in general from your comments that I think give me some insight here.

Regarding acceptance and action, I now better understand what it is that mindfulness encourages here and also importantly why my confusion has arisen. To an extent I am quite good at saying 'I accept that I am thirsty, and my current experience is viewed through the veil of thirst', but I suppose the problem for me arises when I make a value judgement on being thirsty vs. getting a glass of water.

I will use something less essential than hydration. Say I want to go out to dinner because I really enjoy the food in my local restaurant. I see that want to go out for dinner and I feel it and accept it. I am fully aware of its existence and the fact that it is born out of my sensory desire for good food. This is all well and good - I have experienced the want mindfully. However, to then act on this and go to the restaurant and get some food would be to make a value judgement between the food that I would cook at home and the food I would get in the restaurant. Perhaps the former is good (if I do say so myself), but the latter is better.I think my confusion arises from the essential fact that to act in this scenario I need to make a judgement, but if I have accepted something as just 'being', then how can it be good or bad?

Am I taking too much from Buddhism here and getting it confused with the point of practicing mindfulness in a contemporary and secularised setting?

On the other hand, in some other regards I am reaping the rewards of practice. Last night I had a real epiphany in regards to acceptance. It was my own personal mini awakening. I was lying in bed and suddenly a worry cropped up that I can't really do anything about at the moment. I lay in bed and thought 'this is what it feels like to be worried about that thing'. Moreover, I realised that my other experiences (e.g. other subsequent thoughts that arose, physical sensations etc.) were going to be veiled or coloured by that worry. This was fine, and I watched it happen. It was an incredibly liberating experience. I felt like a poster-boy for MBCT.

I have also noticed, or should i say renoticed, another friction for me (it's great being able to talk about these things). Patience! I am impatient in my practice. I am impatient in my desire to know these things and become skilled at them. The other day I was reading the patience chapter of Wherever You Go, and I thought 'I need to cultivate greater patience' and my next thought was 'I need to cultivate greater patience quickly!!' Doh! I think perhaps this is adding energy to these frictions.

Regarding striving, I value all of your insights and will certainly read through them all again. However, one thing stood out to me:

You can talk yourself into circles with striving vs non-striving. You really have to give up on the whole notion. Mindfulness is about knowing yourself at the deepest possible level. That is all.

That really speaks volumes to me, and I will definitely reflect on that sentiment. It was an idea echoed in different ways throughout all of the responses.

Again, thank you for all of your responses. Communities such as these speak volumes about the willingness of people to give to others.

Cheesus

[JonW]

I firmly believe that there's no bad time to come to mindfulness. On the other hand, some times may be easier than others. By way of illustrating the point, I'm 51 now. If I'd found out about mindfulness at, say, 25, I'm pretty sure I would have found it a lot more challenging than I have done. I believe that's more to do with where I am in my life than my age though. Either way, I try to remind myself that the practice is different for everybody and that some people will find it more challenging than others.

[Jenna]

When the student is ready the teacher will appear.

I think that everyone comes to mindfulness for a reason. Self compassion is tricky but it sounds like you are doing well.