BioSattva wrote:Thanks for opening this new thread, Omni. It's a shame you are sacrificing your sleep to speak to us here - your life must be very busy. Your apparent experience and reflections are very intriguing and your candid approach is much appreciated.
You're welcome.
BioSattva wrote:OmniPada wrote:Be to others what they need "now". No more, no less. Doing this prevents you from becoming "Gandhi" at least in your own mind - which is the most important place to know who you really are.
I didn't mean that you are going to actively play a role like Gandhi, I meant that you have posted on an internet forum that you are 'awakened' in some deep sense - a fully realised Buddha released from the bonds of suffering?
I don't use the word "Buddha" in describing myself. I believe the meaning of the word in it's original usage is pretty different from the average perception of that word today.
But yes, "awakened" as described by Gautama.
BioSattva wrote:- and that you are willing to provide help to anyone (with a mindfulness practice?) who asks you,
I help those without a mindfulness practice. A woman whom I have been trying to help for months now finally "got it" late last week and within one week she's gone from a negative co-worker with many relationship problems at work to someone who is now soft, kind, and grateful for the help. Monday I was able to stop her (through reason) from going into a meeting she was going to have with her boss where she was going to tell him everything that he needed to do from her perspective. Instead she was able to see her self, went into the meeting and was surprised to find herself written up. She came back realizing how wrong her perspective has been for the year and a half she's worked at this company. I spoke with her late into the evening tonight after work, and I'm amazed at how much she's changed in just a week. If someone would have told me that she would have been changed this much I would have doubted them. And once again the point is driven home to me that there are none beyond help, and the most helpless is probably the best candidate.
She's never meditated once, and I doubt she'd ever show interest in it (and I'll be happy to find myself also wrong on that one). I began to try to help her months ago because I saw the need.
Once a lawyer asked Jesus how to have eternal life, Jesus turned it on him and asked him how he read it. The lawyer replied to love God and love your neighbor as yourself. Jesus said the man had said well. The man wanted to justify himself so he asked Jesus who his neighbor was. From this Jesus told the parable of the good samaritan, the man who helped another who was robbed and beaten, left for dead and then neglected by various religious people to good to help him. Jesus asked him a highly revealing question, not who was the neighbor, but "who made themselves to be the neighbor".
In this life we all seek ways to avoid helping others. We're averse (one of the three causes of suffering) to having to expend ourselves.
I say if we make the choice to not help the one who has need and has come into our life, then we are exercising our own will, another form of separation from the ultimate reality - there is only one will there, it is what is. Exercise of the self-will separates the willful from this reality and brings about more suffering.
BioSattva wrote:and you have what appear to be all the answers to mindfulness practice difficulties and there is a potential fan club scenario here - that is the 'Gandhi status' I was referring to. Someone doing what you are doing tends to become incredibly popular, sought after, seen as a threat or 'saviour' by spiritual fanatics, etc. I was wondering if you are ready for that?
"Being ready" in the sens of being willing, if it will be, then who am I to say yes or no to what is? That's not really my problem. My problem is only to remain equanimous if such events were to happen.
"Being ready" in the sense of preparation, I've learned that whatever you need, you get, whatever you can handle, you'll have. You never have a problem that you can't handle. You never have abundance that you can't handle. We may mishandle things, but it's not because we didn't have the capacity. I believe the correct handling is the same equanimity in the sentence above.
For the savior complex, you see how I really have no interest in fostering such a preposterous idea. I'll just spend more time convincing you that I'm nothing special than I do actually helping you (actually, that will be the only "helping you" I could do until it sunk in, until then your mind would be focused on me instead of you and I'd have to change that focus).
And it's not healthy to think about these things too much. Everyone sits around wondering about what they will do if they won the lottery, and none of them do. Waste of mental energy, ultimately it only brings about more suffering.
Only the present moment should be lived in.
For ways to leave the present moment:
1. Thinking positively about the future. "Oh when I get the next pay raise" "when I get the next job" "when my friends and I go out this Friday" All of these inflate the future positively and it can become an escape mechanism by which we don't have to stay focused on the "now" that I don't really like. When the present is returned too, it's viewed now as a form of suffering.
2. Thinking negatively about the future. "I'll get fired" "my friend will die" "my car will break down" All of these bring the suffering of some imagined event that may or may not actually happen, into the present moment. Why suffer early for something, especially when it may not even happen?
3. Thinking positively about the past. "Those were the good ole days" These thoughts make the present seem to be suffering, same as #1
4. Thinking negatively about the past. Whatever that event was, the suffering from that event wasn't needed then and it's still not needed today. Why suffer for something that has already ended? If the event itself is continuing to the present, keep in mind this equation:
Suffering = pain X resistance
The more you resist, the more you suffer. You can't control the pain, that's the event of life. But you can control the resistance. By lowering resistance to 0 you can reduce your suffering to 0.
I'm not interested in living too much in the future, wondering about fame, stardom, being labeled a radical, hated by religious leaders, etc. That's too large of a distraction from living in this present moment, there's no telling how much I'm missing in the present moment thinking about some future that will probably never happen, and if it does, I can practically guarantee it won't happen the way I imagined it. So much for preparation.
BioSattva wrote:Ultimately, it seems you can't stop people from asking you for whatever they need - you can't hold back your compassionate nature to share the solutions to the problems of others who suffer, and that was the apparent key situation that increased the fame and projected power of people like the Buddha, Jesus, Gandhi, etc. If one looks into their stories, then one will see the difficulties they faced in having to follow their compassionate heart and help people - their fame inevitably increased and they gained many followers/disciples, including assassination attempts and successes. Declaring that one is awakened and that there is an inevitable fan club scenario on the cards, and that one no longer gets angry and has the answers people need is definitely setting oneself up for a kind of Gandhi existence - or more - a Gautama Buddha existence, from my perspective. It seems unavoidable.
You talk about playing roles as needed, but I am assuming you can't hold back your compassionate nature when someone in serious need of help approaches you.... so you have a 'permanent' role that is unavoidable in that respect, don't you think?
No. For when I sleep, all roles come to an end. Even in some wild extreme scenario that you'd like to draw out I'd still have the privacy of my own life, my own interior which none can intrude upon. I have a place inside that is a pavilion hidden in the dark. In a crowded room with much interaction I can always withdraw to this place and rest from the activity of the world.
Plus, I'll have you handing out the t-shirts keeping them all busy at the Omni-swag table. Just kidding. But seriously, I already have two students, and I would develop more, and instead of doing so much one-on-one I'd focus on being the resource my students could call on as they serviced the people. You need to start getting serious about your practice and spend as much time being mindful as you do dreaming out my future, or you'll be of no use to me or the rest of the world.
BioSattva wrote:For example, if you were to suddenly abandon all of us here after arriving and saying that you are here to help, don't you think that that would be an uncompassionate and 'unawakened' act?
Yes. But I may also have adequate reason. I have been on other forums (much more established than this) where everyone was so legalistic there wasn't much I could do. I didn't even contribute. Just asked a few questions to find out about what they thought, etc. But there was no way to help, because as religious lawyers they didn't think they needed any help.
It may make more sense to have "Ask Omni" on my own site and when there aren't enough questions (is that possible?) coming in to come here and help, using my signature to point people to my site, etc. The reason for this would be I can better control the format and the message presented from my site rather than this one. There would be a consistency in message at my site, here you may get some very conflicting messages, and by helping people directly here I'd be encouraging them to stay in this environment where they will meet conflict and possibly get hurt.
You can bring up negatives in this method too, but in doing so we waste our time looking at the threads of the garment instead of at how beautiful it is when worn.
BioSattva wrote:What if, for example, someone asked you if they could come and camp in your garden and learn from you?
Remember, it's a ditch, and a muddy one at that.
It's not necessary to live in my garden to learn from me. First lesson I'd teach them is how to find their own place. If they completely submit themselves to whatever teaching I'd give, they'd have to go get their own life as their first instruction.
BioSattva wrote:Would you refuse them if you had the capacity to allow such a thing?
Your example of help and my use of it are different.
Helping someone isn't giving them what they ask for or what they want. It's giving them what they need. No one needs to live in my garden to become enlightened or awakened. It's actually counter productive. Any form of Omni-worship would be the exact opposite of enlightenment.
BioSattva wrote:If you would refuse them, even though you had the capacity to allow them, what would be the reason?
Because I will seek to give them what they need, not what they want.
BioSattva wrote:There are many such potential scenarios that someone who is awakened and unconditionally compassionate can face - things like personal property take on a different meaning and value. What if the 'Omni fan club' decided they wanted to pool together and pay off your house and car, and donate you a practice center, for example? This is the kind of beginnings of a Gandhi scenario that I am talking about.
On my last reply I actually typed a couple paragraphs on the handling of money and then deleted it. It was in the context of those who sell "the truth" don't have "the truth" because if they did they'd realize it can't be sold. I'll never charge for services or my time. If someone wants to donate, that's up to them but I'm not even interested in bringing it up.
BioSattva wrote:One would also assume that your awakened state does not mean that you are only concerned with helping people with the details of mindfulness practice - that you are also concerned with helping all people to reach your awakened state - muslims, Christians, Jews, etc.,
Minor correction, it's not my awakened state. I don't own it.
BioSattva wrote:and that you have an unbridled intention to help every sentient being in the world in whatever 'skillful' way that you can.
Yep. And considering my background in Biblical studies I may be well suited for the Christian arena. But it doesn't matter to me. Whatever way it does or doesn't develop, that's the way it will be, so I'll deal with that way at that time.
BioSattva wrote:Have you considered meeting other apparently 'awakened' individuals, like Thich Nhat Hanh, to discuss your experience? Do you want to make sure that this term 'awakened' you are applying to yourself is correct in the context of Zen Buddhism and mindfulness practice?
Oh? It seems you think Zen Buddhism and mindfulness practice is what owns this term "awakened" as if the Thervada-based Buddhism is irrelevant to awakening as are the other forms of Mahayana Buddhism.
Which one was Gautama? Was he Zen? (rhetorical question to emphasize point)
Awakening is as awakening does.
If you're wanting me to present credentials as proof, I'm not interested. A doubter can never be satisfied. This is religion. They always want some one else to give them authority. From whom can you get authority when none have it? Even the awakened don't have that authority, they have realized all authority is form and empty.
If you're wanting me to convince you and you're not doubtful, allow me to help you, and as much as I can help you, believe that.
If you're wanting me to be convinced within myself, I am that already by process of years of seeking, finding, and listening to another awoken master who described exactly as I have experienced it. But really this is something that only one can speak of himself. If you tell me you are awakened, only by listening to you could I tell if you aren't or are for myself. But if I told you you are - that neither makes you awakened or doesn't make you awakened. And if I said you're not awakened, that doesn't make it so.
I'm sure by now you've experienced some enlightenments about how things work (specifically your mind, your personality). You don't need someone to tell you if it is true or not. You've seen it for yourself. And if another said it wasn't true, it wouldn't take it from you, and if another told you it was true, it wouldn't make it any more true within you.
BioSattva wrote:What is your job, may I ask, and how many hours do you work a week? Do you have any hobbies?
My job at present is to type these long letters to you. :^D
Away from this correspondence course in daydreaming about being the next Gandhi and having the world camp out in my garden, in my spare time I'm a linux server admin and working into becoming a lean sigma process engineer.
:^D
BioSattva wrote:I really hope, for your sake, and mine
, that you truly have this awakened state, and that you are able to shoulder the social responsibility you are taking upon yourself.
I take no responsibility. One cannot take responsibility. You can only do what is given you to do. No more, no less.
For years I have helped two of my friends who have become students of mine as I've grown. They've grown just steps behind me. I didn't not take any responsibility with them. Only that I would be honest with them about whatever I thought and experienced.
I could easily leave things this way (leave the form, speak to no one). I could be the janitor mopping the floor at the school. Nothing would really matter.
How it has developed so far: I started a twitter account just to take notes, to keep a record of short pithy ideas as I was clarifying them. In doing so I've met some wonderful people and a number of them whom I've been able to help. I've spent time on the phone as well as hours writing emails. As you can see with my writings, "hours" is no exaggeration.
@mindfuleveryday tweeted someone was having questions with emotions coming up after starting mindfulness meditation and asked for any to participate in the discussion, and the rest you know. I just did what was in front of me. And I'll continue doing so.
BioSattva wrote:People come on the internet all the time and declare they are Jesus, Buddha, God, Enlightened, Awakened, whatever, and in all other cases I have seen it has ended in sadness. I am always happy to practice beginner's mind and acceptance however, so welcome again
, although I suspect spectacular claims are going to need spectactular evidence for many people.
The cool thing is, I'm not here to prove anything. If someone wants help and I offer advice, they can take it or leave it, their choice. And if they take it, the "evidence" will be something that only they can speak of.
Even in most eastern traditions is the choosing of the teacher and the student. The student must be adequately convinced that this teacher can help them. And the teacher must evaluate the student and decide if they think they can help them. It's a very personal thing. This forum may flatten that out a little, but in reality a subtle form of that will be going on with everyone who comes looking for help and those who offer their help. Both sides deciding if they think a relationship with the other side is beneficial (even if just in the form of writing one answer).
I think in all your writings this is right at the precipice of your thought, perhaps a yet-unspoken thought.
If I may, you spend a lot of time in the future. And not even in your future, you've spent a lot of time in my future. I recommend you track how many times you catch yourself in any other timezone than the present (especially when not thinking about my future). And when you do, just think about why you took that particular time trip. In a short time you'll find a theme or two and how to deal with it will be apparent. And dealing with it will bring you some liberation.
The next observation is this point about proof. It follows if there's a new Gandhi (did he claim to be awakened? or just one who freed India from British rule?) then those who follow personalities will want proof. In my case, I neither want nor seek any follower, much less one who will follow by personality. That would be form, which is empty.
So this leaves the question of why to point out proof as a topic. I think this is the unspoken thought. Maybe you're wondering if I can help you.
I'm happy to be wrong. But on the other hand, right or wrong, I'm happy to help in any way that I can. Just remember, I'll help you with what you need, not with what you say, or with what you want. And the help will probably be more in the form of the muddy ditch rather than the garden.
:^D
BioSattva wrote:PS: About video - it's difficult to skim and quote, and is not so much a discussion format as a dictation format, if you see what I mean. It's difficult to go back and see what has been said. Hopefully you have the time to post here while keeping things as brief as possible.
While true, if it is a video per question, there may not be as much skimming going on. And then we can always get someone to transcribe. I agree that the format of delivery needs to be varied. Text for those that read, video for those who watch, mp3 for those who listen. And maybe even the Omni jogging suite of awakening for those that are kinesthetic learners. (I'll let you determine the pricing and man the tables when I go on world tour)
.
