Impacts of starting regular meditation

[BioSattva]

"first, you have to wake up in prison"

I love it - I think I'll be adding that one to my 'repertoire' of attributed quotes - and another teacher I have to check out now. Thanks!

I'm supposing that the metaphor continues to a place where one's 'prison' - limited reality - is a joyful place to be - once one accepts it. It's often the fantasies we are sold - i.e. prayers can always be answered by a supernatural being, it's possible to 'cheat' death, one can access accurate predictions of the future through psychic forces, etc. - appetites for a false 'super-reality' that can cause so much pain when the inevitable hunger it generates goes unsatisfied - it becomes a wailing infant screaming in our heads and bodies until we can accept that these unrealistic and false beliefs are no longer necessary. The 'super-reality' becomes replaced with the a boring, simple, basic reality which feels like a prison of sorts - until one begins to enjoy the absence of the counter-balances to one's previous super-beliefs; no supernatural 'dictator' affecting one's existence and condemning one for every immoral deed, inevitable death forcing us to 'feast on our lives' more in the present because it's the only life and 'time' we have, no person can read one's mind or future and control one, etc., etc.

The absence of good luck also means the absence of bad luck. The absence of good luck and lucky charms might seem like a prison of sorts at the beginning, but how free a life is without bad luck and curses!

[OmniPada]

So as I've mentioned in other posts I've just come back to minfulness after a long time of not meditating. I am starting light, with about 10 minutes of meditation a day and 15 minutes of yoga a day. This has been going for about 3 weeks and I've been feeling good about my commitment but trying not to strive too much, just making sure to sit each day and see where it leads.

Meditation isn't about "good" or "bad" - those are both forms of duality, in reality there is no good or bad, there just "is". You are backing up your car and you bump your friends car. Neither good nor bad, it just happened. The bump "just is" with no judgement. If you judge it "good" - does that make it easier to fix? If you judge it bad, does that make it easier to fix? No. It's completely unnecessary. Correct thought process is "event has happened, now how to respond" not "even has happened and I feel this way, that way, they will be upset...." none of those thoughts are actually addressing the situation.

Another danger with "good" and "bad" with any spiritual practice is the effect it has on endurance. If you experience weeks of "good" then suddenly two months of "bad", then you will likely quit without seeing the true essence that your practice has brought up - the "good" v.s "bad" judgements (more on that in a minute).

Following the thought of "bad" meditation is "I'm doing something wrong, they do it better than me, this must not be for me, there's something wrong with me..." and on it goes. And all the while the endurance is wore down until we quit.

Meditation is as meditation does.

That's the simplest way I can state it. Meditation is the focusing of the mind on an object (typically the breath). It's not judging "good" or "bad". It's not wandering mind. It's not emotional feelings. Those things happen, but when they do "meditation is as meditation does" and since meditation is focusing on the breath (or object if you use something else), then we just bring focus back to breath when we realize it has wandered. No judgmental thought "boy, I can't even pay attention to my breath" is needed, because that's not meditation, that's self judgment and meditation is as meditation does, so "back to the breath" is the only thing we think in response to all those things that arise during meditation.

I discuss the three meditations I do and the "good" "bad" traps as well as a list more of them in my meditation video. I'd be honored if you'd watch it and give me feedback: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBf8KFSMMSg

And then, on Saturday morning I woke up pretty depressed. It only lasted for half a day and then I was back to normal, but it was pretty profound. I cried all morning, feeling very dissatisfied with my life and my marriage and my career, questioning all of the choices I've made in my life and feeling completely empty lost on what I want and even who I am.

Normal. Completely normal. Some of our most unsettled times come before great insight. The months leading up to my awakening I was deeply troubled, and the last week was the most extreme and excruciating panic/fear/depression/loss I had ever experienced. Nothing on the outside had changed to warrant these completely overwhelming feelings. Nothing I could do would shake those feelings either. From the time I woke up to the time I went to sleep.

But meditation is as meditation does, so "back to the breath" was my thought each time. And it paid off. My awakening hit suddenly and now when even the strongest emotions arise, the same ones I had just prior to awakening, it's as if can keep my mind focused on the task at hand until the emotion has completely faded from sight. Like staring at your computer screen (the task at hand) while waving your hand (the fear) in your field of vision, you just never lose focus on the computer and keep right on working.

Those afflictive emotions now pass within less than 60 seconds and don't return. I would say also they cannot be ignored. There is a way to gaze directly into the emotion and thoughts that gives this power to remain focused off of them at the correct times. I would not recommend to anyone that they "ignore" their emotions, this is very unhealthy.

When you are alone, take the time to pause deeply. Sitting still in your body, sitting still in your mind, go back to the thought, the fear, the depression. Look directly at it. Ask yourself "why do I think this? why do I feel this?" Keep gazing into it. With each answer that comes, ask the same probing questions again until you feel satisfied you have reached the root. Ask yourself also what you would do if your fear/depressed thought were really true. I.e. "My marriage is unfulfilling" - "OK, so what is the right thing to do? ... To look for the root problem." You may find that you have a fantasy-life expectation and that by looking at it deeply you can see it's unjustified. You may find it's because your partner has flaws and won't change but ultimately they are things you can internally deal with. You may find that because of your own discomfort you've created an environment of discomfort which naturally pushes your partner away. I cannot give you the answers, only ideas that represent what you may find so you can know what to look for.

On that self-examination, I will give you this one very important principle:

Whatever you have wanted most is exactly what you have.

Of course our natural reaction is to say "that's impossible, because I didn't want THIS!!" But instead of having this reaction, try having the questioning mind and ask "what are my hidden desires that I haven't seen yet that are bringing about the circumstance I now find myself in?" As stated before, it could be your own discomfort/insecurities/etc that are subtly affecting your relationship(s), producing what you have. Only you can determine that by looking deeply, I don't presume to know.

I also want to give you a strong word of caution, if you'd consider it and see if it's fitting. When you're in this down state, make no moves, no changes. Just be still. I don't mean lay in your bed for days, I mean go about your day as normal, but don't let those strong negative emotions sway you into an action. "My marriage is unfulfilling, that's it, I've had enough, I'm leaving." If you act from those feelings you will lock not only those feelings in as a permanent fixture in your mind, but you'll also suffer the consequence of that action. For example, if you did decide your marriage was unfulfilling and you left, you'd have to continue to justify that action even after the emotion had subsided. A typical justification mechanism is to re-energize that emotion in an effort to continue the justification. This fixates the emotion and perpetuates the negative action. It's a big trap.

Perhaps your marriage truly is unfulfilling and after serious examination and true effort on your part you rightfully decide to leave (which I could argue against unless there were abuse). Perhaps. But even then, the negative state isn't one from which to take such an action. Better would be to wait until the correct frame of mind and emotion were present to act from.

No right action can be taken from a wrong state.

Though I'm feeling better, this experience has stuck with me since then.

Noticing the pattern? "I felt good when I started. I felt bad. Now I feel good."

It's hard, but don't let those emotions determine your quality of life (or meditation). Those who have awakened all say how the mind and it's thoughts, and the feelings are more of an annoyance than anything. "I felt good" "I felt bad" "I saw showers of sparks" "Buddha came and talked to me" - all distractions of mind and body that should be ignored as they lead you away from ultimate reality. These things are all fabricated. There is the mind and the thoughts it produces (fabricated). There is the body and it's emotions (aka feelings) it produces (fabricated). Being fabricated they are false. There is a reality to get in touch with that's other than mind-and-body-produced.

Today I did an 8-minute guided meditation and afterwards I felt some similar sadness and emptiness, but much less intense. I can't help but think that it may be because of the regular meditation, that I am getting in touch with some things I've been ignoring and it's just a bit of a shock to start becoming more aware of these feelings? It's funny because I just said something to that effect here on the forum, in response to another person's post (that sometimes with meditation as with therapy it may get worse before it gets better) but then it hit me personally, days later, with quite a punch.

I guess I'm rambling a little, but I wonder if anyone knows the type of experience I'm talking about, or had something similar when you began meditating regularly?

"Ignoring" (emphasis in your quote is mine). This is key. As you meditate, you become more sensitive. I can now feel the slightest feelings like jolts through my body, even to my fingertips. At the slightest frustration I can sense the falling away of my intelligence, almost like watching myself "dumb-down".

Again, the feelings are completely normal.

There are three roots of suffering:

Aversion - avoiding what we don't like. "I don't like bad meditation. I don't like bad relationship. I don't like, I don't like, I don't like". What we don't like, we avoid. Foolish to avoid what we don't like. Good news, everything always changes all the time, what we don't like will eventually change, just wait. All the aversion in the world doesn't make the change happen faster or slower, only makes our experience of "now" miserable.

Clinging - trying to hold on to what we like. "I like good meditation. I like mind tricks like showering sparks and Buddhas that talk to me, I like that guy over there, I like, I like, I like." What we like we cling to. Foolish to cling to what we like. Good news, everything always changes all the time, what we like will eventually change, just wait. All the clinging in the world doesn't make the change happen faster or slower, only makes our experience of "now" miserable.

Ignorance - not realizing how reality truly works. This is what you're able to look back and see now that you have meditated a little. You were ignorant to these feelings before. Now through meditation you've become more sensitive and are now aware of them. In the past when you were unaware of them you just reacted to them without knowing that's what you were doing. Now that you're aware there will be this negative tension you feel. Depression eventually leading to feeling like needing to do something about it. "I'll color my hair to make me feel better. I'll get a manicure. I'll go out on the town. I'll buy that new dress. I'll get divorced. I'll do anything to cover up this feeling." We're so good at diverting the mind and covering up that we don't even become aware of the depression any more, we just realize we want to go shopping. Now that these things are coming up, focus your awareness on them. Look at what things naturally arise from them - the motivations to specific unhealthy actions. By looking deeply we see not only the source (above where I talked about looking deeply to see the root), but we also now see the typical result it brings into our life. One is the seed, the source, one is the action, the expression of the suffering, the tree growing from the seed.

Seeing both the seed and the tree we can avoid the entire growth and walking around it go about having a happy life.

"Omni, what should I do now that I see these things?" - nothing. You don't need some mystical ritual, incense, chants, dances, special yoga poses, making a religious sign in the dirt, etc. Just seeing it clearly frees you. Each time you gaze deeply into each negative thought and emotion, you drain more power from it because by gazing into it you raise your sensitivity to it, raise your awareness of it, and now when it arises within you say "ah, depression, good friend, how I've missed you, now please sit over there and don't bother me, I'm a little busy with my life at the moment." And fixing the focus of your mind back to your present moment the depression fades away.

Will this happen over night? No. Thus my point about endurance from the beginning. Run long enough to see results, and the results themselves will propel you to continue running for the rest of your life.

Feeling down? Ignore it.
Feeling great? Also ignore it.
Feelings are as feelings do. They move you all over the place and create clinging, aversion, and are based in ignorance.

Namaste,

Omni

[BioSattva]

Hi Omni,

Your practice and your awakening sound very interesting. I'm looking forward to reading more posts from you on this forum. Welcome.

Bio.

[JonW]

What BioSattva said.

[piedwagtail91]

What BioSattva said.

[Gareth]

Thank you to OmniPada for his post. You obviously have vast amounts of experience, and I too look forward to the advice that you can give to others.

[Vixine]

Thank you Omni, for that very thoughtful response. I think I am just starting to get to the point that I can understand some of it

It's true that I focus a lot on my feelings, both physical and mental feelings. I am a counselor so in part that is a by-product of my work. It is interesting to start to 'get' how mindfulness might give some distance from the constant feeling and judging that I have always taken as reality. I feel like a whole world is starting to open up in front of me and I'm just barely getting a taste of what it is like.

The discussions on this forum have given a lot of insight about this whole process of becoming more mindful. This is quite a journey isn't it?

[LucidMind]

Thanks Vixine. I'll check that out.
Gil Fronsdal is fab. I'd also highly recommend Andrea Fella's guided meditations. Available for free via the following link...
http://www.audiodharma.org/teacher/2/

Just wanted to say thank you for sharing this link JonW! I have a feeling that i'm going to be spending a lot of time on that website

[LucidMind]

Thank you Omni, for that very thoughtful response. I think I am just starting to get to the point that I can understand some of it

It's true that I focus a lot on my feelings, both physical and mental feelings. I am a counselor so in part that is a by-product of my work. It is interesting to start to 'get' how mindfulness might give some distance from the constant feeling and judging that I have always taken as reality. I feel like a whole world is starting to open up in front of me and I'm just barely getting a taste of what it is like.

The discussions on this forum have given a lot of insight about this whole process of becoming more mindful. This is quite a journey isn't it?

Hi vixine! Just wondering, what kind of counselor are you? I am going to start a PhD program this Fall for a clinical psychology program!

[OmniPada]

OK, I'm going to hijack this thread and get the boot. :^D

(honestly, if you want to reply to this, let's fire up another thread and just link it in a single post here, I'm posting this to this thread because it's a response to the posts above and I know how admins like to keep stuff all nice 'n neat).

Your practice and your awakening sound very interesting. I'm looking forward to reading more posts from you on this forum. Welcome.

What BioSattva said.

What BioSattva said.

Thank you to OmniPada for his post...

Thank you Omni, for that very thoughtful response....

I do appreciate all your feedback, I really do. And I look forward to becoming personal friends with each one of you. I'm here only to help, so in any way I can, please do let me know.

But before this place turns into the Omi Pada fan club, let me offer a few words. :^D

The awakening is seeing yourself clearly just as you are. This enlightenment (there are many enlightenments, only one awakening) has two key insights:

1. Your personality is completely made up, false, technically non-existent (the Buddhist word is "empty").
2. The real you is the fabric of what is, all creation is one and there is no dividing lines in this fabric - "tag you're it".

(Knowing these two things in the noggin and experiencing them is the difference between (a) reading a recipe for cake and (b) making one and then eating it, until it's eaten you don't really know much about it. A lot of people spend a lot of time reading about meditation, mindfulness, etc. It's like they are reading all the recipe books but they never make a cake. If you haven't experienced these two, I encourage you to meditate on them. Along the way you'll hit enlightenments that will push you towards these two until like the day the flower decides to bloom, BOOM, it will all open up for you.)

The impact these two insights have are that you no longer identify yourself with your (former, yet still existing) ego. You live only in what is. Can you still be egoic? yes. But the ego has suffered a mortal blow and it's only a matter of time before it completely collapses. As the ego is dying/fading you come into roles. Eventually you're left with just roles. With my children I'm father. With my friends I'm friend. With those seeking awakening, I'm Omni. It is just a role. Like a robe. I put it on, I take it off. It would be really annoying to everyone else and especially to me if I were Omni all the time. Always spouting off about awakening, always going on about ultimate reality and how this or that is not real, it's dualism, etc. With the truth you can easily destroy the world as others know it. A little reality-logic at the office would be deadly for everything you try to work on. You would be 100% correct, no one would get it, and you could certainly stop all progress from happening. Eventually the role would be "unemployment". ;-D

(What I'm working on now is trying to convert those that have met me as Omni to be like those who know me as friend. At times maybe my insight is needed (Omni), other times my mouth closed (friend) is the best thing for everyone involved (especially me!), or maybe just saying something totally stupid and obvious like friends do - I'm pretty good at that! I used to be an extreme introvert, part of my process was some enlightenments that showed me the malleability of the ego and I moved from extreme social dysfunctional introvert to a relaxed extrovert, nobody that knows me now even believe I was ever and introvert no matter how much I tell them.)

Anyway, back to the results of these two insights. I really don't have an ego to build up, defend, protect, etc. I'm just not really all that interested. Now it's obvious I won't spend much time helping in places where I'm rejected, but I also can't spend much time helping in places where I'm thought of as more than what I am, and describing just that is the point of this post.

I'm just like you. Exactly like you. Only more so.

Insight #2, the real me is the boundless fabric of reality, having no boundary this same fabric which I see as "me" is also the same fabric in you which you call "me" (especially once you can see it). There is absolutely no difference between you and I, not one little thing different. "But Omni, you have XYZ insight that I haven't had yet." ... "AND?" That really doesn't make us different at all. It's just knowledge. We are not our thoughts (produced by mind, known by mind), so we also are not the knowledge of some insight. We're just that base fabric of creation, everything else is fabricated, not real. So just because my mind has some knowledge that someone else hasn't yet seen doesn't make me any different from them. In religion people use knowledge to identify themselves and therefore separate themselves. In reality there is no separation, all are of one. When I become old and my knowledge fails me and yours is still blossoming strong, does that make me any less or you any more? No. So then neither does it now if the tables are reversed. As you are, so am I.

Just like you, when I meditate my mind still spouts off all kinds of stuff. It's constantly pulling this way, pulling that way. I'm constantly bringing focus back to breathing. Like you, during the day I have thoughts that bring about fear and love (the two polar opposites), same as you. I still have to refocus attention back to present moment and away from the aversion of fear and the clinging of love. I'm the same as you. I will admit, I don't experience anger much any more. It's been many many years since I was in anger. Every once in a while now I can get extremely irritated, but it usually passes within an hour or so at the longest. But it's not because I'm special, it's due to endurance. And for all who have the same endurance, all will have the same result. There is no difference between you and I, we're the same.

That's of me. Now for a word about this knowledge.

Not only does this knowledge make me any different from anyone else, it's nothing I can claim. I have a body, I can not claim it, one day I will lose it. I have a mind, I can not claim it, one day I will lose it (some may say that's happened already - don't tell me if it has, I'm enjoying the experience). I have children, a house, a car, all these things will I lose. I've had a spouse, already lost. There's nothing I can claim as "mine" and it's foolish to even have this thought. Think for just a moment about your car, house, whatever. You have a title, even if you have no loan on it, this is a simple paper that has value only in the society which supports the government which issued that slip of paper to you. What authority do they have to tell you what you have or don't have? They also can not claim it. What they can't claim they don't have the authority to give to someone else to claim. Just consider it. We have nothing. Holding on as tight as we can we find our hands empty as if all things are just mirage.

So when I give some knowledge from an experience I have, it's not mine. It's not from me. I can't claim it. All that has happened is I had the clarity to see a truth and I've been able to repeat it.

In reality, there are no words that can be used to represent the truth. When I write "table" - does that make a table? Do those letters combined make a table? If I speak this word, do the sounds coming from my mouth make this object? If I think this word, does the thought make the object? No. There is only table, all the rest is just letters, word, sound, thought that represent table. Even if we take a real table, when you look for tableness within the table you won't find it. You just find legs and a top, and searching the legs and top for legness or topness you just find wood/metal/whatever fiber. And searching fiber for fiberness, you just find molecule, and searching molecule for moleculeness you find atom, searching atom for atomness you find electron, neutron, proton, searching them you find quark, searching quark you just divide further and further and further with no end. In all searching you never find tableness. Table is truth, there is such a thing as table, but in searching it can't be found. And all we are left with to speak of this truth is a combination of letters, a sound from mouth, a thought in mind, a picture of one in your kitchen.

The same with truth of reality. Though I can write these two insights down of awakening, just knowing those words, those letters, those sounds, the image in the mind, or a picture of it were you able to make one, doesn't give another the truth of those statements.

At best all words are just signs pointing in a direction, saying "look over here". And in looking perhaps one can see the truth.

Many many many many people are saying words. Words are form. There is what is real (the table), then there is the form (the letters, the sound, the thought, the picture). The form is not what is real. If you would like to sit and eat, having only a chair I write the word "table" on a slip of paper, have I given you form or the reality?

Form is as form does.

It's completely empty. As we saw above with tableness, it is empty because with all searching you can't find tableness, the difference with form is those who use form think they are using the reality. Form is empty and the person is fooled. Reality is empty but it can still be used though it can't be found or explained. I hope this doesn't sound too much like a riddle, just go back to the example of where I write the word table on a slip of paper until the difference between form and reality sinks all the way in. Knowing there is no tableness doesn't stop you from using a table. Thinking there is tableness makes you attach to it to the point that when table is broke you miss it, because you didn't realize that "table" isn't permanent reality and it's suddenly only being "top" "legs" (broken ones) or "fibers" is a surprise.

Don't be caught in form. Knowing all things are empty, you don't get caught up in any of them. People are busy saying chants, burning incense, saying words from foreign language, writing symbols, wearing symbols, going to "holy" places, sitting in certain formations, bending their bodies different ways, not eating anything, eating food offered to a god, etc... All form.

What chant can represent reality, seeing no letters, word, sound, thought, image can represent reality?

What incense can represent reality, seeing no letters, word, sound, thought, image can represent reality?

What foreign word can represent reality, seeing no letters, word, sound, thought, image can represent reality?

What symbol? No symbol can represent reality. There is reality, there is symbol. Not the same. One is empty, one is. Once seeing what is, the form has lost all value. Actually, never had any, it's finally seen for what it is, empty of all value.

Holy place? What is more holy than what is within you? It can't be expressed, shown, touched, written, photographed, only experienced - what other place can be better or higher than this one? People busy killing eachother over this holy place or that holy place, yet the most holy place is the place within their fellow man that they have killed.

All form is empty, to be fooled into thinking it's not empty is ignorance. From these three come all suffering: aversion, clinging, ignorance. Ignorance of form is suffering. The ignorant are fooled into killing by form and form alone.

So all the knowledge, all the words, all the sounds, letters, writings, thoughts, expressions I can give, they are all form. As form, they will bring suffering if I give them in ignorance or you receive them ignorantly. This isn't to say if you didn't know before you read what I wrote that you are receiving in ignorance, no. This is to say if you say "Ooooooooohhhhhhhh, Omni Pada has spoke...." then one is ignorant of the emptiness of the words themselves, the emptiness of me. This is same as if buddha comes in your meditation - kill him and return to meditation, don't pay any attention to form.

I do not fool myself with what I know. It's only knowledge. It doesn't change who I am. I am just as you are, one fabric, one creation, one substance, all just one.

Don't let my knowledge change how you view me, such a thought is not true. To think of someone higher than they are is to be ignorant. To think of someone lower than they are is to be ignorant. Both bring suffering.

And if you think perhaps you will still think of me more highly than you should, consider this subtle point that is usually overlooked. Consider the process by which I came to know any truth, the truth was there and I had the capacity to see it. Nothing more. If the vessel of the truth had been a muddy ditch, should I now hold that ditch in any higher esteem? And this same process is the one by which you also know the truth. The truth was there, you had the capacity to see it. Nothing more. At best, if I am the vessel by which you saw some truth, then I am no higher than the muddy ditch, and you see you also have the same capacity to see the truth as I. So what makes one greater than the other?

There is no difference between you and I. You see, we're the exactly the same.

If you've made it this far in the post, congrats. :^D

If you're thinking perhaps I'm a little early to post this or you're wondering why I'm hitting this so strong when it's only my second post, I'm just wanting to not give any room for either someone to have a false impression of me, or my dying ego to think it has some leg up on starting that fan club. ;-D

And if you didn't get much from this post, by all means, as with the times when with clarity you receive the truth, just ignore this muddy ditch and don't give it another thought.

Namaste,

Omni