Present vs Future

[rara]

So now, the revolution of it all...

I mentioned this in passing to Gareth and thought I'd bring it up here for discussion.

Our understanding of mindfulness is to shut down those anxieties and thoughts that take us nowhere i.e thinking about your tea when you should be paying attention to what your boss is saying to you etc...and so on.

But does mindfulness make us forgetful sometimes? And if so, should it? There are some things that I tend to forget nowadays due to my training in "not to worry about them". Perhaps these things I were supposed to do weren't so important after all. Or maybe they are to others, and I'm choosing to neglect them subconsciously because I can't really be bothered to do them.

This is a hard thing for me to get to the bottom of. As a martial artist and business man, I should always be prepared. How can I prepare for a future when I know in my own mind that there is no real future? Life should be spontaneous, I get that, but in the modern world...there are so many obstructions to creating a spontaneous life...

Discuss. Ho-ho-ho!

[LoveBeforeAllElse]

I've met the same conundrum! I'm reminded when talking with others just how much I have really have learned to let go and live freely. Mindfulness has lead to me to realizing that in this moment, my highest desire is to live spontaneously. My goal is to work my way completely out of the system I tend to not care about and create a more free one, for myself and for others. I can't help but believe that If enough people realize this freedom on a grand scale the world would have to become a better place.

My message is simple: live alert, and live
spontaneously, and live totally.- Osho

[rara]

I completely agree with that! In fact, that's the reason I started in business...because I didn't want a job where I had to do something for someone when THEY wanted...

Then I ran into the same problem...I still felt the need to grow further. I ended up meeting more demands in order to do so, then all of a sudden I'm back in the same loop and starting to worry about my future. But it's what I created, so I suppose it turned out this way because it's what I'm used to.

I've been thinking hard about this over Christmas, and I guess the real answer is to be aware that there are two lives. The real one that we speak of on here, and then this game we play in the "other real world"...and that what I need to do is treat things like a computer game. When working, I'm in the game so I should remain within it and play my best. When the day ends, save my progress, then go and cross my legs for a while Should I want to "take my work home with me", I suppose I can set some time aside, as I would if I were playing a game i.e looking up some strategies or techniques. And finally, if the game I choose to play becomes too difficult, I can always trade it in for an easier one

[Gareth]

It makes me a little forgetful I guess. Sometimes an event creeps up on me, almost a surprise. It's because I haven't spent ages 'thinking' about beforehand either anxious thoughts or otherwise.

Even if sometimes I am a little forgetful, I would much rather have it this way than spending time worrying about future events and missing out on whatever was happening in that moment!

Mindfulness has given me so much. I will take a little forgetfulness.

[mindfulnessforall]

Interesting topic. I had similar questions for a while and really battled with the thoughts are not facts side of things - it becomes a bit of an identity crisis for a lot of people. Here's my thoughts anyway..

Mindfulness isn't about shutting off worry, anxiety or thoughts, rather noticing when we do worry and are anxious about something. As soon as we are aware of negative thoughts we can make a choice - choice is the key here. Which thoughts do we invest in and which ones do we leave be? I usually ask my self 'is this thought helpful?' - if not then I just leave it or let it do it's thing. Returning to the breath is always handy : )

It sounds like you're all getting good a filtering out the unhelpful thoughts, but this isn''t forgetting. You can plan ahead, go for your dreams, work as hard as you want but all honoring the present moment. The time you spend meditating will naturally filter into your day anyway. I see it all as the same thing - informal (sitting meditation) and informal (rest of your day) practice.

Basically, mindfulness is every moment and the more aware we are the more choice we have. It can be tricky to be mindful at work with so many demands and deadlines. It's just a case of checking in now and then to see how we're doing.

[Gareth]

Inspiring comments Andy

I started practising mindfulness in earnest probably about 30 months ago now. The more that I practise, the more wonderful it becomes. This is a tremendously powerful and peaceful way to live your life.

So glad to have an experienced practicioner here in the forum!

Gareth

[rara]

@minfulnessforall I see what you mean. But my issue is actually that, say, I'll go away and sit for 30 minutes as a means to get away from it all. I'll concentrate, say, on compassion for so long, that the other things I was meant to do that day go forgotten. Well, some...

Ever had those situations where you're in mid-flow of conversation with someone then something distracts you. Then you try and pick up where you left off but couldn't remember what you were about to say? Similar thing...

[Medway Tai Chi]

I think this subject is being made into something much more complicated than it needs to be.

Meditation is a tool to achieve clarity and focus of the mind. If your practice is causing your thoughts to become scattered and lost (IE, forgetting things), then there is an issue with your practice that needs addressing. By it's very name, 'mindfulness' should NOT make you forgetful.

The OP writes;

"As a martial artist and business man, I should always be prepared." - prepared for what? If you have a pet cat, watch its behaviour. It doesn't exist in a permanent state of readiness to pounce. If you are trying to focus your mind, without something to focus on, can you be suprised that you're losing thoughts left, right and center? Focus has its place, as does the sung state.

My major gripe with "meditation" is that people 'do' it in classes or sessions, then go out and expect the results of meditation to stay with them throughout the rest of their lives.
The problem is, they 'do' meditation for 1 hour, and then for the other 23 hours of the day, they are essentially doing 'anti-meditation' - charging around, mind on multiple things, planning for the day or week or month ahead, but forgetting to center on the moment at hand. Again, can we be surprised when the mind loses itself? As RaRa says:

"my issue is actually that, say, I'll go away and sit for 30 minutes as a means to get away from it all. I'll concentrate, say, on compassion for so long, that the other things I was meant to do that day go forgotten." - well of course!
Why do you need to concentrate on compassion? Are you not a naturally compassionate person? Do you also focus on the flip side? Do you meditate and explore your selfish side? Do you understand how both your compassion and selfish desires compliment each other, as well as counteract each other?
So you spend 30 minutes meditating on your compassion - do you bring mindfulness into play, and explore how this compassion motivates your choices and actions throughout your day, or do you just expect it to radiate from you, because you've meditated on it??
More importantly, why do you meditate when you have things you should be doing? For best "results", meditate when you have nothing pressing on your mind. A time and a place for everything, including meditation.

By the way, hello, I'm new to the forum

James

[rara]

Hi James,

Thanks for this, that is very useful! Let me answer some of your questions as some were ones I was asking myself anyway, and others were quite eye-opening!

""As a martial artist and business man, I should always be prepared." - prepared for what? If you have a pet cat, watch its behaviour. It doesn't exist in a permanent state of readiness to pounce. If you are trying to focus your mind, without something to focus on, can you be suprised that you're losing thoughts left, right and center? Focus has its place, as does the sung state."

- Sure, I completely get that...but there is to some degree a level of convention. I don't necessarily mean I'm ready to pounce from the moment I wake up until when I go to bed, but with planning comes the development of the business. The expansion. The opportunities. Perhaps when you say I could be anti-meditating outside of the meditation could be THE issue. And I'll tell you why...because people all around me are erratic...or at least it seems that way to me. So learning to deal with this mindfully could well be more productive than using my meditation to run away from things and lock myself away. Perhaps my anxiety is secretly still lurking about in this instance. hmmmmmmm

On meditating on compassion and selfishness. Yes, I do keep track of both sides...I suppose it's just a ritualistic thing for me to to to ensure I maintain it. I would be interested to know if you feel that I could possibly be distracting/hindering myself in this case, and what I should actually be doing is paying more attention to my work at the appropriate times! I certainly do place things in context though, no worries there...and apply this to my life.

"More importantly, why do you meditate when you have things you should be doing? For best "results", meditate when you have nothing pressing on your mind. A time and a place for everything, including meditation. "

Gold. I think this may well be the actual answer...maybe sometimes I'm being a bit to ritualistic which is counteracting my nature....

Dave

PS Who/what is "The OP"?

[Medway Tai Chi]

Hi James,

Thanks for this, that is very useful! Let me answer some of your questions as some were ones I was asking myself anyway, and others were quite eye-opening!

""As a martial artist and business man, I should always be prepared." - prepared for what? If you have a pet cat, watch its behaviour. It doesn't exist in a permanent state of readiness to pounce. If you are trying to focus your mind, without something to focus on, can you be suprised that you're losing thoughts left, right and center? Focus has its place, as does the sung state."

- Sure, I completely get that...but there is to some degree a level of convention. I don't necessarily mean I'm ready to pounce from the moment I wake up until when I go to bed, but with planning comes the development of the business. The expansion. The opportunities. Perhaps when you say I could be anti-meditating outside of the meditation could be THE issue. And I'll tell you why...because people all around me are erratic...or at least it seems that way to me. So learning to deal with this mindfully could well be more productive than using my meditation to run away from things and lock myself away. Perhaps my anxiety is secretly still lurking about in this instance. hmmmmmmm

If you feel that you may be using meditation as a shield to hide behind, then perhaps anxiety is an issue. How to address it? You just did! By awakening to the possibility that anxiety is an issue, you can now apply your mindfulness to this aspect and see if you are subconciously being guided by your anxiety.

On meditating on compassion and selfishness. Yes, I do keep track of both sides...I suppose it's just a ritualistic thing for me to to to ensure I maintain it. I would be interested to know if you feel that I could possibly be distracting/hindering myself in this case, and what I should actually be doing is paying more attention to my work at the appropriate times! I certainly do place things in context though, no worries there...and apply this to my life.

Do you feel like you are hindering yourself?
It's possible that you are. Without knowing what your aim is, and where you are with your practice, I can't say out and out "this is what you should be doing" (and I wouldn't, I would just say what I would do!)

"More importantly, why do you meditate when you have things you should be doing? For best "results", meditate when you have nothing pressing on your mind. A time and a place for everything, including meditation. "

Gold. I think this may well be the actual answer...maybe sometimes I'm being a bit to ritualistic which is counteracting my nature....

Dave

That's twice you've used the term 'ritualistic'!
In my opinion, 'ritual' is a death sentence for any kind of meditative/alchemic practice. Life is not a ritual, it sweeps and flows, and we have to go with it.
Imagine that your life is a fast flowing river, and you are being swept down it to your ultimate goal at the estuary. Now, every ritual that you fall into is a long branch reaching out from the river-bed. These ritual branches are going to keep snagging your raft, delaying you from reaching your goal. Some people even make the mistake of thinking that their ritual is their goal!
I've met people who say to me "every day, I wake up and practice my tai chi form three times, and meditate for half an hour." But they can't tell me why. They can't tell me what they have discovered from their practice. All they can say is "it makes me feel peaceful" or some such mental illusion.
I have things that I practice, but I have no set 'routine' or 'ritual'. I practice what I feel I need in the moment. Sometimes I walk the circle with the mother palms, sometimes explosive taichi boxing forms, or sometimes I spend a day on standing meditation. Sometimes I spar MMA fighters at their local gym. By not being 'tied' into the ideology of "I have to do this then, and that then.." I'm able to explore what I'm doing in the moment, without worrying about running out of time.

Kill your rituals, throw out your guided meditation cds (how can you learn to free your conciousness by following robotic instructions that never change?!) and just BE YOU. Then bring your 'being' into everyday and start to see that there is no control except over ourselves, and that we cannot seriously control the world around us.

PS Who/what is "The OP"?

OP = Original Poster