Confused about Not Stopping Thoughts & Observing Thoughts

Post here if you are just starting out with your mindfulness practice. Mindfulness is a really difficult concept to get your head around at first, and it might be that you would benefit from some help from others.
calm--
Posts: 7
Practice Mindfulness Since: 01 Jan 2016

Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:49 am  

Hi,

Sorry if what I wrote here is confusing. I want to learn about mindfulness, but this mindfulness thing is making me confused and stress.

I've been dealing with brain fog, very easily stressed-out, anxiety, restless, racing thoughts, thinking too much, etc for years. I started doing 30 minutes of seated meditation daily (focus on the breath), couple years ago. Didn't really know what's the purpose and what it's all about at the time. I just find it relaxing so I just keep doing it.

Some examples of my racing thoughts are, when watching tv with my friends, I almost didn't catch any of it. My friends were talking about the show, and I'm just busy with my own mind. During yoga class, I had hard time following the instructions because my mind is everywhere. I often notice feeling stress of this constant thinking.

Lately I read some articles about being mindful on daily activities, where you focus on what you're doing. Like when I'm brushing my teeth, I focus on the sensation of the brush on my teeth, the taste of the toothpaste, etc.

The first time I did that, I feel good. I tried to focus on what I'm doing, without thinking about anything. So I tried to do it all day, on all my activities. I feel better. I notice less stress, much better concentration, and I enjoy things more. My racing thoughts are getting less and less. I thought that, I feel good because I managed to reduce the racing thoughts. I thought that mindfulness is about that, to be present and stop those annoying thoughts. So I became obsessed with reducing thoughts. I tried to focus on the present moment as much as possible, and have as little thoughts as possible all the time. I only think when I feel it's necessary. I thought that, at least for me, thought = stress. I thought that, the less thought I have, the better I will feel.

But I don't always succeed. Some days I feel good. Some days I feel stress. I notice that my thoughts are mostly monologue, talking with myself. Or sometime replaying past conversations or imagining future conversations. Some days those monologue keep playing in my head without me being able to stop it. I get frustrated when I'm not able to stop it. I probably feel pressured of trying to focus on present moment and not think all the time. I often repeat the phrase "Be mindful" of a way to remind me of this. Sometime it feels a bit unnatural that my mind want to think about something, but I just stop it because I feel it's another useless thought. I also tried to analyze this mindfulness thing too much I'm stressing myself a lot.

1. I read many posts that we shouldn't suppress our thought. We shouldn't try to stop thoughts. We should just let it run wild. That we should watch them instead.

Here are some excerpts from a reddit's post :

"In all forms of instructions for meditation (we'll use mindfulness of breath for an example), they always tell you to not suppress your thoughts, but to instead watch them mindfully.

It's not bad to have thoughts. In fact, it's normal, and it's necessary to have them if we are to function in our daily lives. Do not reject your thoughts, just let them be.

If you find yourself exerting effort to letting go of your thoughts, you're doing it wrong.

Thoughts go away when they want to, not when you will them to.

EDIT: To quote the commenter /u/Call-the-cops-IDGAF

Typically when you get a song stuck in your head, it's only a certain, small part. The trick to getting it 'unstuck' is to listen to the entire song from beginning to end. The same goes for thoughts. If you end up thinking something, and forcing it out, you'll end up thinking the same thing over and over. The trick to getting it out is to just let it go, run wild with it, let it do it's thing. It's there for a reason and once it's done, it's done."


"This has always been the most difficult part of meditation for me and I had a hiatus from meditation because thought suppression ended up stressing me the hell out.

If you watch your thoughts, and your mind just keeps on going and going and going, isn't that an issue? I always tried to stop that. Are you supposed to keep watching it?"


"I've had the same issue as well.

Have you ever had a song looping in your head before? I have that sometimes, and I would get so annoyed about it and would spend hours researching on the internet just so that I could get rid of it. What I've learned is that you can't really force it out, and that you have to just let it loop in your head while you go do your thing and it'll eventually die out. Same goes for your thoughts.

In reply to your question, yes. As long as you keep watching it without judgement and with non-partial acceptance, it will go away on its own. But thing is, there is a very fine line between interacting/identifying with your thoughts, and just watching them. I guess you just need to know how to trust yourself to know the difference. :)"


So now I'm confused. Have I been doing it wrong?

2. So these last few days I didn't try to stop my racing thoughts. I let it run wild. I notice lot of my thoughts are useless, meaningless, repetitive monologue. For example, today I did 40 minutes seated meditation. It was full of meaningless monologue. I just let it be. I didn't try to stop it. I just notice it. Usually most of my meditation are focusing on the breath. Today's meditation though, I almost didn't get the chance to focus on my breath at all. I had to spend almost my meditation noticing my thoughts, because those monologue just keep going if I don't put any effort to stop it.

These are some examples of my thoughts on today's meditation. For whatever reason, the song "Thank You For The Music" by ABBA has been playing in my head since I woke up.

Gibberish words, repeated many times :
"boba boba biba biba boba boba biba biba.."

That song again :
"Thank you for the music..."

Imagining asking about this on the forum :
"Can someone help me with this..."
"I think I've been doing it wrong..."

Repeating these words :
"Don't stop thought...don't stop thought...don't dont stop thought..."

For whatever reason, I often repeat this sentence since childhood even though now I'm not spiritual anymore :
"God is good.."

Gibberish words again :
"Dog cat pig horse..."

That song again :
"Thank you for the music..."

Gibberish words again, repeated many times :
"boba boba biba biba boba boba biba biba.."


It kept going like this. I didn't try to stop it, because it feel like my mind want to keep doing it. After a while, the volume of those monologues got weaker. But it kept going till the end of my session.

An article on medium.com also talked about where mindfulness is not stopping thought. It said :
"You develop the skill of noticing it all without getting caught up in it (without indulging it)."


I'm a bit confused with "noticing it without getting caught up in it (without indulging it)".
I'm confused what's the limit between "don't try to stop it" and "don't get caught up in it".

By letting those monologue goes on, am I doing the right thing by "not stopping it"? Or was I "getting caught up in it"?

3. How about thought that asked me to think about something?
Let's say when I'm meditating, a thought pop-up : "What should I do today"?
Am I supposed to just let my thought keep going and think about what I should be doing today?
Or thinking about what I should be doing today is "getting caught up in it", thus I should stop and get back to breathing?

4. It kept going on after my meditation's finished. Plus monologue about things happening in the present moment :
"This knive is not sharp enough"
"This veggie doesn't seems good"
"God is good.."
"Thank you for the music..."
"I have so many thoughts..."
"This just won't stop.."
"Should I try to stop it or let it?"
"I think I need help.."
"Thank you for the music..."


The only time it kinda stop is when I'm concentrating on writing this post.

When people talk about not stopping thought and observing thought, do you only do it on meditation session, or on your daily activities as well?


Thanks for any help!

JonW
Team Member
Posts: 2897
Practice Mindfulness Since: 08 Dec 2012
Location: In a field, somewhere

Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:21 am  

Hi Calm,
Yes, mindfulness isn't about stopping thoughts. It's about relating to thinking in a different way.
In a sitting meditation where you follow your breath, the idea is that you notice when your mind is wandering and gently bring your attention back to the breath. Effectively, you are choosing where to place your attention. This takes practice.
Try varying your meditations. Schedule a few body scans each week. Try some mindful walking or mindful movement.
Mindfulness practice can be difficult to sustain without some kind of structured approach. Have you tried looking for a qualified teacher in your local area? Have you looked into books that will take you through an 8-week course? The one I usually recommend is Finding Peace In A Frantic World by Mark Williams and Danny Penman.
Best wishes,
Jon
Jon leads the Everyday Mindfulness group meditation on Zoom every Monday/Friday, 6pm London-time. FREE.
Follow this link to join the WhatsApp group and receive notifications: https://chat.whatsapp.com/K5j5deTvIHVD7z71H3RIIk

calm--
Posts: 7
Practice Mindfulness Since: 01 Jan 2016

Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:34 am  

Thanks for the reply Jon. Right now i'm reading Mindfulness In Plain English, only a few chapters so far. I saw a lot of people on reddit recommend the book. I have so many thoughts and I dont know what to do with it, it stresses me out. I tried to find the answer in the book and search the internet but still confused.

I also tried walking meditation on most days, but its still the same problem, i'm confused what to do with the thought.

I havent tried looking for teacher in my area. I think there are, but i've no idea how good they are.

I might take a look into the book you recommend, thanks.

JonW
Team Member
Posts: 2897
Practice Mindfulness Since: 08 Dec 2012
Location: In a field, somewhere

Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:44 am  

Mindfulness In Plain English is an excellent book but, if memory serves, it's not a course book.
Approaching mindfulness via a course has many benefit, not least the opportunity to learn about the concepts underpinning the practice and the variety of meditational options that are introduced.
I'd also recommend any book by Jon Kabat-Zinn, the architect of modern-day mindfulness as we know it.
Cheers,
Jon
Jon leads the Everyday Mindfulness group meditation on Zoom every Monday/Friday, 6pm London-time. FREE.
Follow this link to join the WhatsApp group and receive notifications: https://chat.whatsapp.com/K5j5deTvIHVD7z71H3RIIk

calm--
Posts: 7
Practice Mindfulness Since: 01 Jan 2016

Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:28 am  

Thanks again Jon. I looked at amazon and saw that there are 2 books :

"Mindfulness: A Practical Guide to Finding Peace in a Frantic World" (2011)
"Mindfulness: An Eight-Week Plan for Finding Peace in a Frantic World" (2012)

Do you know if these are just the same books?

I saw it's based on Mindfulness-Based Cognitive Therapy (MBCT). I know a bit about Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) from the book Feeling Good by David Burns. Do you think that MBCT is better than plain Mindfulness? I'm easily overwhelmed and stressed-out, so I'm a bit worry that adding the element of CBT will overwhelm me.

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