POLL: Watching thoughts

[Peter]

When you put it like that, it doesn't sound strange at all, Spikey. You see, your realization of your thoughts not being true is just a concept for you. You have to realize that you cannot read, talk or think about it to feel it. And you have to feel it, for it to 'work'. This can only be achieved by experiencing it. And that comes from doing enough meditating.
Peter

[Spikeycloud]

When you put it like that, it doesn't sound strange at all, Spikey. You see, your realization of your thoughts not being true is just a concept for you. You have to realize that you cannot read, talk or think about it to feel it. And you have to feel it, for it to 'work'. This can only be achieved by experiencing it. And that comes from doing enough meditating.
Peter

Yeah I begin to realize that as well. though would it not possible that your mind would color that experience negative automatically?

[Peter]

You'll find out yourself when you do the work, Spikey.
Peter

[JonW]

'Can you watch your thoughts passing by like clouds in the sky, without losing awareness?'

Sometimes I can, sometimes I can't.
Every meditation is different. For all of us.
However, it is easy to start thinking that some things are simply beyond us. Some people have difficulty feeling any sensations the first few times they do the body scan. Usually, it changes.
As they say in Zen, you can't step into the same river twice.
Just bring curiosity and bare awareness to your moment to moment experience. Really, that's all there is to it.
Cheers,
Jon

[anshu89]

I have struggled with Anxiety and Obsessive thoughts for most of my life.

I started the practice of mindfulness about 3 years ago, but it has only been in the last one year that I have felt the true benefits of it.

I tend to get stuck on certain thoughts like glue and keep ruminating on them. This causes an emotional reaction which feeds the anxious thoughts which feeds the emotional reaction and so on...It's like a never-ending cycle of anxious thoughts and feelings.

I stumbled across this Guided meditation called "Acceptance of thoughts and feelings" which has really really helped me.

If you don't mind I would like share how I go along with my practice:

First, I become aware of my bodily sensations, looking for feelings of heaviness and anxiety

Next I try to trace how those feelings came about in the first place. Looking for patterns of thought(s) that caused it. This helps me in catching any similar thought patterns in the future that are anxiety inducing

Next I try to inculcate an awareness that recognizes any thoughts and sensations that may arise in the present moment. I let my awareness land on the first thing it notices (my breath, sensations or my thoughts) and note to myself (breath, feeling or thinking). I think of it like a feather landing on any one of those things and me gently recognizing it.

I still struggle with Obsessive negative thoughts (mostly about my Mindfulness practice i.e. I'm not doing it right, doing it won't help me, etc.) on some days.

I get sucked into the cycle of anxious thoughts and feelings & it takes me a while to recognize them as just thoughts and feelings (and nothing more).

But I'd say about 99% of the remaining Intrusive thoughts have vanished. My anxiety has reduced by leaps and bounds.

Again, this is something that has worked for me and everybody's practice of mindfulness depends on their own experience.

I'd also like some feedback from the veterans of this group regarding my practice.

Please let me know if my practice is OK or if I'm doing something that you think is incorrect.

I'd love to hear back.

[Peter]

Hi anshu89,

Welcome to the site.

Nice to hear that mindfulness has helped you so much already.

Is the practice you described the only formal practice you're doing at the moment?

It doesn't surprise me that you struggle with obsessive negative thoughts about your Mindfulness practice. It seems you're trying to follow a strict schema. It's very common for people to get obsessive about mindfulness. It's very important to not take it too seriously. Approach it all with a lightness. By the way, that goes for life in general too.

Peter

[JonW]

Hi anshu89,
Welcome!
It would be useful to hear how you have gone about learning mindfulness. Whether through a teacher, a book etc. Also, some info on the kind of meditations you do, how long, and how often.
Looking forward to hearing back from you.
All good things,
Jon

[anshu89]

Hi Peter,

This is what I do as of now.

My practice tends to change with time and experience but it ain't easy for me.

Being Rigid in my practices has been a long standing problem.

Any sort of change in my practice triggers all sorts of thoughts and feelings about how that change will be bad for me, and I get sucked into it.

Thoughts like "This isn't proper meditation, You're doing it wrong, this is your own watered down version of a proper meditation technique that you have no clue about, this is not going to help you, etc."

Or if I customize my practice and tweak it even a little bit to suit my needs I am barraged with thoughts like "None of experts like JZK or Dan Harris have ever talked about doing what you're doing. They're the experts and you're the novice. So what you're doing is wrong."

It is only after struggling with anxious thoughts and feelings for some time that I get comfortable with any change in my practice.

What helps me is when I tell myself to "just do whatever helps me with my condition" instead of worrying about whether or not I'm doing it right or wrong.

But sometimes the obsessive thinking is just too strong. Maybe because I've been struggling with it for way too long and I've been practicing mindfulness only pretty recently.

Could you suggest some practices that you think would help me.

Or guide me to some resources (articles, audio, video, etc.) that would.

Thank You.

[anshu89]

Hi JonW,

I started mindfulness through watching videos on Youtube.

I graduated to listening to guided audio recordings on my iPod.

I also sometimes use apps like Headspace and Calm.

I do a lot of mindfulness of thoughts or feelings. Or a full Body scan.

To be very honest I've never been very regular with my formal practice.

I've done sitting-down formal meditations for maybe three weeks max, at a time.

But I tend to be mindful throughout the day whenever I realize I'm becoming anxious. I pay attention to my thoughts, feelings and sensations when it starts to feel like its going downhill.

Just doing that has helped me a lot.

But the problem is that sometimes I get carried away with my Obsessive negative thoughts and enter a state of deep anxiety (most of these thoughts are about my mediation practice these days).

I mistake those thoughts to be real and start reacting to them. This snowballs into a full scale meltdown eventually.

This throws my entire system of being mindful throughout the day, completely out of whack.

And it takes me about 3-4 weeks of struggling with those negative thoughts & feelings to again reach that calm state of being mindful.

I feel like I'd be more confident if I had someone (like a personal drill sergeant) to snap me out of it when I get stuck to that one obsessive thought that causes me to have a meltdown and disregard my practice completely.

I have long stretches (like 2-3 months) without any Obsessive thoughts / feelings but then something out of the blue just pops up in my head that causes me to react and I get stuck to it.

Then it takes like a month to get out of that anxious phase and then go back to being mindful and calm.

It is very very frustrating.

[JonW]

'To be very honest I've never been very regular with my formal practice.'

Structure and a regular (daily) practice are key. It's almost impossible to live a mindful life without the practice.
Unlike working out down the gym, mindfulness is not a goal-oriented practice but similar things do apply. If you only worked out occasionally, it wouldn't be surprising if you hadn't got the six pack you desired. If you don't practice mindfulness regularly, don't be surprised if you are struggling to be in the moment. Mindfulness isn't about understanding the concepts that underpin it. Mindfulness is a meditation-based practice. There's no getting away from that.
I'd recommend at least 30 minutes a day and a mix of sitting meditations, body scans, mindful movement and walking meditation. Each day, form the intention to practice. And be kind to yourself at all times.

'But the problem is that sometimes I get carried away with my Obsessive negative thoughts and enter a state of deep anxiety.'

This habit is likely to become less compulsive with regular practice.

'I feel like I'd be more confident if I had someone (like a personal drill sergeant) to snap me out of it when I get stuck to that one obsessive thought that causes me to have a meltdown and disregard my practice completely.'

Long-time habits can be difficult to break. Regular practice teaches us to become intimate with our habits to the point where they begin to have less of a grip on us. The more we do something, the more likely we are to continue doing it. This applies to mindfulness as much as compulsive thinking. The more we practice mindfulness, the more mindful we become. It's a great habit to cultivate.
Eventually, being mindful almost becomes second nature. If we lapse in practice, it's likely that old habits will return to the fore. At least, that's how it works for me and the people I teach.
Keep with the practice and get a structure to it.
All good things,
Jon