POLL: Watching thoughts

[MindfulnessRVA]

Maybe I will be going to far, but implied in your question is this idea that there is some problem with thoughts? There is this desire to become not so caught up in thoughts? That seems very stressful - where did you get this idea about thoughts? Here is an example -

When a person goes to the beach to relax, they do not set up their chair and then sit in the chair and self-talk saying "relax...relax...relax...". No! A person just sits down in a chair and after some period of time stumble upon themselves in a state that feels pleasant. We call that relaxation, but it was not something that can be attained. It just happens by mistake.

Just like the beach, just sit down on a cushion, chair, or some place you can remain still for a period of time. There is nothing you need to do. Just sit down and see what is happening moment-to-moment. Don't worry about the breath being an anchor, if you are practicing non-judgmental awareness - what do you need an anchor for? The only reason a person would need an anchor is if they were trying to attain something and if you are trying to attain something, like letting your thoughts pass, you are just seeking a specific feeling.

If that feeling is not there, you will stress out and you wont enjoy the weather at the beach. Maybe it is raining, cold, and windy on your beach. Hmmm...can you just sit there shivering, frustrated, and annoyed. If you can, you will discover for yourself what thoughts really are and they will take care of themselves. After a period of time you might find some calmness, and then you mind will want to attain that state again and thoughts will be difficult for you again.

Just pay thoughts no mind at all, pay no mind to having a certain state, and pay not mind to avoiding difficult experiences. Look deeply, why isn't distraction also Mindfulness?

[JonW]

'Maybe I will be going to far, but implied in your question is this idea that there is some problem with thoughts? There is this desire to become not so caught up in thoughts?'

It is not so much a desire as a simple noticing that we are caught up in thoughts.

'What do you need an anchor for? The only reason a person would need an anchor is if they were trying to attain something and if you are trying to attain something, like letting your thoughts pass, you are just seeking a specific feeling.'

Not so. The anchor brings us back to the present moment. As we shift attention from the fact that our mind has wandered to the anchor (the feeling of our feet on the ground, our breathing etc.) we are present once again.

'Look deeply, why isn't distraction also Mindfulness?'

What does this actually mean? Mindfulness is about seeing, not looking. It is about just noticing without attachment to or identification with what is being noticed and witnessed.

Cheers,
Jon

[Quim]

Great idea for a poll Peter.

In my opinion....

What a wonderful post, Matt. I think you decrypted lots of doubts I used to have eith this issue. Thank you very much.

Anyway, here is my question: what should we do to get more easily this outcome -the ability to observe our thoughts? In my experience, this unintentional state of mind arrives more often when I practice the breathing, body and sound meditation.

[JonW]

Anyway, here is my question: what should we do to get more easily this outcome -the ability to observe our thoughts?"

Keep practicing. And don't get too attached to outcome. There'll be times when noticing your mental processes are easier than others.
Jon

[Matt Y]

Anyway, here is my question: what should we do to get more easily this outcome -the ability to observe our thoughts? In my experience, this unintentional state of mind arrives more often when I practice the breathing, body and sound meditation.

It's been quite a while since this question was asked but I'll offer my answer anyway.

1. Meditate with the intention to be aware of thoughts and be curious and interested in what, when and how thoughts arise.
2. Let thoughts be a part of your meditation. You can come back to the breath, body and sounds if you want to, but there's no need to make that a priority. You can just attend to sensory experiences when your mind lands on these things naturally.
3. Reflect back on what you were thinking about from time to time (or after you've finished meditating). This allows you to become aware of what you were thinking in hindsight. The awareness you develop by reflecting back will then likely make you more aware of similar patterns of thinking as they arise in future meditation sessions.

[Happy Buddha]

Hi Guys, I have uploaded a short video about how to gain a perspective on thoughts. Hope you find it useful

Click here

[Peter]

Thank you very much for your contributions to Everyday-Mindfulness, Happy Buddha.
It is greatly appreciated!

Peter

[Spikeycloud]

I don't like the whole idea that you are identified with your thoughts and you are not the one directly thinking them. This is in my case because my thoughts are mostly lies and negative things that don’t serve me or other people. I for an example if I keep thinking and identify that people hate me even though I know they don’t I find that really, really disturbing if you cannot get rid of that. I also don’t like the idea of not being the thinker of those thoughts because you then have no control to change them – and it really feels like depersonalization with me.

It sometimes feel I entered a completely different reality. In the past I never had problem being identified with thoughts – I believe I was thinking myself then - and was a lot happier as well no worry on my mind.

[Peter]

I don't like the whole idea that you are identified with your thoughts and you are not the one directly thinking them. This is in my case because my thoughts are mostly lies and negative things that don’t serve me or other people. I for an example if I keep thinking and identify that people hate me even though I know they don’t I find that really, really disturbing if you cannot get rid of that. I also don’t like the idea of not being the thinker of those thoughts because you then have no control to change them – and it really feels like depersonalization with me.

It sometimes feel I entered a completely different reality. In the past I never had problem being identified with thoughts – I believe I was thinking myself then - and was a lot happier as well no worry on my mind.

I find this pretty peculiar, Spikey. What you're basically saying is that you are happier believing that the negative thoughts are true, and you like to derive your sense of self from them. I've never heard that before.
Peter

[Spikeycloud]

I don't like the whole idea that you are identified with your thoughts and you are not the one directly thinking them. This is in my case because my thoughts are mostly lies and negative things that don’t serve me or other people. I for an example if I keep thinking and identify that people hate me even though I know they don’t I find that really, really disturbing if you cannot get rid of that. I also don’t like the idea of not being the thinker of those thoughts because you then have no control to change them – and it really feels like depersonalization with me.

It sometimes feel I entered a completely different reality. In the past I never had problem being identified with thoughts – I believe I was thinking myself then - and was a lot happier as well no worry on my mind.

I find this pretty peculiar, Spikey. What you're basically saying is that you are happier believing that the negative thoughts are true, and you like to derive your sense of self from them. I've never heard that before.
Peter

It's more like I cannot stop believing them at those moments – it feels like I'm forced to be indintified with them - and this is very strange in my opinion – that I’m completely identified with those negative thoughts even though I know they are not correct. For an example if I have eye contact – I might believe that person hates me or is making fun of me. Then I become aware of this, that this is not true but a second or 2 later I’m back in that identification. It is like I’m not even there and that the self is completely becoming the pattern. I have also a pattern in reaction to those negative patterns that I’m really pissed I cannot stop doing that. I now begin to learn to accept but I forget most of the time

When I'm on cetrain subtances I can geet easier out of those indentiications and have more peace. But that is not a long therm solution.