Confused about non-judgment in mindfulness

[Jonaaaa]

I am confused by this. It seems a misnomer: it really is the awareness of the judging that we do rather than non-judgment. But I can't see the difference between it and discernment. Jon Kabat-Zinn here from 1.39 differentiates it from that concept of discernment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwVkxcw1eZE.

But what is the difference between the two? How is my judging not to cross the road in front of that lorry different from me discerning that it would not be a good time to cross the road as that lorry is hurtling down the road?

Is the difference that judgment connotes value-judgement (like, dislike, value, rejection) whereas discernment is judging what's wise to do and not do?

If so, how about this: I work with you but you have some terrible ways and I really don't like you. In fact, you're one of my least favourite people. This impression is not knee-jerk but has been built-up over time due to your behaviour (assuming that the behaviours I attribute to are fair).If I am being mindful do I have to become aware of this judging of you and accept that as just a thought or series of thoughts?

[JonW]

'Is the difference that judgment connotes value-judgement (like, dislike, value, rejection) whereas discernment is judging what's wise to do and not do?'
Yes, that would be my understanding of it.

As for the work colleague, being mindful of judging that person might be a good thing. Would your judgment of him or her change if you discovered that they had recently lost their entire family in a house fire? Or if you discovered that they suffered from extreme social phobia?
Is your judgment of them based on a limited perspective?
Might loving-kindness be appropriate here?
Cheers,
Jon

[Mindsfull]

Hi Jon,

I love how you answered this. Those questions really do resonate and I imagine would make you approach many situations/people differently. Would you advise that one would consciously think and ask these questions or was you using just as a purpose to answer the question?

[JonW]

Hi Mindsfull.
I think it's more a case of realising that there's a space where I can choose whether to respond wisely or react impulsively. Realising that space becomes habit, with practice.
This idea is beautifully illustrated by a quote from Viktor Frankl, an Austrian psychiatrist who courageously endured imprisonment in Nazi concentration camps (he survived four camps, including Auschwitz) during World War II. In his extraordinary memoir, Man’s Search For Meaning, published in 1946, Frankl describes how he found meaning in spite of - and because of - the suffering all around him.
Frankl wrote, ‘Between stimulus and response there is a space, and in that space lies our power and our freedom.’
Essentially, he is saying that, while he had no choice at all about how he was treated in the camps and he had no choice about how those around him were treated, he realised that he did have a choice in how he responded to circumstances, from moment to moment.
As psychologist/author Elisha Goldstein elaborates, ‘In essence, the practice is to notice when the judging is happening so we can recognise the space in between what we’re judging (the stimulus) and the judging itself (the reaction) and choose to make a change. The power to choose our responses comes with an awareness of that space.’
Recognising that this space is always available to us, we are able to move towards a sense of wholeness, towards a way of living where we are not at the mercy of our reactive, destructive cycles.
When we respond to the moment mindfully, we are able to live more in the flow of life. We start feeling more free, more peaceful, more whole, less fragmented.

Cheers,
Jon

[Eric A.]

I am confused by this. It seems a misnomer: it really is the awareness of the judging that we do rather than non-judgment. But I can't see the difference between it and discernment.

But what is the difference between the two? How is my judging not to cross the road in front of that lorry different from me discerning that it would not be a good time to cross the road as that lorry is hurtling down the road?

Is the difference that judgment connotes value-judgement (like, dislike, value, rejection) whereas discernment is judging what's wise to do and not do?

If so, how about this: I work with you but you have some terrible ways and I really don't like you. In fact, you're one of my least favourite people. This impression is not knee-jerk but has been built-up over time due to your behaviour (assuming that the behaviours I attribute to are fair).If I am being mindful do I have to become aware of this judging of you and accept that as just a thought or series of thoughts?

What I immediately picked up on listening to him, the difference between what he terms judgement and discernment, probably the two words mean much the same thing. He is parsing the difference between subjective bias in the thinking, and sound, reasonable thinking. Biased thinking is automatic, in fact sometimes it seems the greater the bias the less sound the reasoning is behind it. This thinking is based on a narrow set of assumptions and tends to be a reflex that comes out of our clinging and attachment, or aversions and hates. It's one of the ways cognitive behavior therapies look at the thinking driving some of our less responsible actions and patterns. Breaking down the illogic with mindful interventions is an entire field of therapy in and of itself. It's gaining a lot of attention in the therapeutic researches particularly as trauma and stress is now being seen as more likely to produce pathological response than has been previously assumed.
For example. The video you quoted could be looked at more broadly however. But the main point, our thinking can come from several different places within us.