FPIAFW - Week 4: Moving Beyond The Rumour Mill

JonW
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Posts: 2897
Practice Mindfulness Since: 08 Dec 2012
Location: In a field, somewhere

Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:35 pm  

"Do you do this with your positive thoughts as well? Merely seeing them as thoughts?"

Good question.
Generally speaking, positive/happy thoughts are not what cause us trouble. They come and they go. We tend not to get hooked on them, as it were.
Another category is useful thoughts. These might include "I need to call my dentist to arrange an appointment", "My kitchen appears to be on fire, I'd better throw some water on it" or "I'm hungry - I think I'll make a meal". Again, these types of thoughts don't cause us too much trouble.
Then there's the thoughts that are rumination about the past and worries about the future. These thoughts are often loaded with judgment and can cause us a lot of misery.
All thoughts are just thoughts but we can discriminate between those that are harmless, those that are useful and those that cause us misery. It's the third category that, perhaps, we need to be most mindful about.
My life used to be dominated by negative thinking. It made my life a misery. That's no longer the case and that's entirely down to mindfulness. I still have negative, judgmental thoughts from time to time but they no longer bother me. Just as the problems in my life are pretty much the same old problems - I simply relate to them differently these days.
Which reminds me...
There is an old story about a farmer who came to see the local wise man because he had heard that the wise man was a great teacher. Like all of us, he had some problems in his life, and he thought the wise man might be able to help him straighten them out. He told the wise man that he was a farmer.
“I like farming,” he said, “but sometimes it doesn’t rain enough, and my crops fail. Last year we nearly starved. And sometimes it rains too much, so my yields aren’t what I’d like them to be.”
The wise man patiently listened to the man.
“I’m married, too,” said the man. “She’s a good wife…I love her, in fact. But sometimes she nags me too much. And sometimes I get tired of her.”
The wise man listened quietly.
“I have kids,” said the man. “Good kids, too…but sometimes they don’t show me enough respect. And sometimes…”
The man went on like this, laying out all his difficulties and worries. Finally he wound down and waited for the wise man to say the words that would put everything right for him.
Instead, the wise man said, “I can’t help you.”
“What do you mean?” said the man, astonished.
“Everybody’s got problems,” said the wise man. “In fact, we’ve all got eighty-three problems, each one of us. Eighty-three problems, and there’s nothing you can do about it. If you work really hard on one of them, maybe you can fix it – but if you do, another one will pop right into its place. For example, you’re going to lose your loved ones eventually. And you’re going to die some day. Now there’s a problem, and there’s nothing you, or I, or anyone else can do about it.”
The man became furious. “I thought you were a great teacher!” he shouted. “I thought you could help me! What good is your teaching, then?”
The wise man said, “Well, maybe it will help you with the eighty-fourth problem.”
“The eighty-fourth problem?” said the man. “What’s the eighty-fourth problem?”
Said the wise man, “You want to not have any problems.”
:shock:
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fabiG
Posts: 41
Practice Mindfulness Since: 01 Jan 2016

Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:05 pm  

I see the point here, everybody has its problems, and I accepted that it is impossible to not have them. At least I think so... :roll:

What I was referring to is the fact that at the moment, I am wrestling with my mind about a specific thing that happened in the past. And I truly want to get over it, accept it as it is and go on. But I can't do it, and I think that my good thoughts are an indication of my logical thinking...so when I'm coming up with a conclusion that is for me good, then I'm feeling extremely good...and if I'm coming up with something negative, well you can guess it...:)

So, I don't know, I don't want to have those good thoughts as well :D

JonW
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Posts: 2897
Practice Mindfulness Since: 08 Dec 2012
Location: In a field, somewhere

Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:27 pm  

Well, effectively, you are anticipating the turning towards difficulty that is taught in week 5. It will be very interesting to see how you respond to that.
As for good thoughts/bad thoughts, only the labelling of them makes them so (to paraphrase Willie The Shake). Some are teflon-coated, others are more like velcro. But they're all just thoughts, not facts. They are interpretations of reality, not reality itself.
How's the meditation going?
Jon
Jon leads the Everyday Mindfulness group meditation on Zoom every Monday/Friday, 6pm London-time. FREE.
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fabiG
Posts: 41
Practice Mindfulness Since: 01 Jan 2016

Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:00 pm  

Well, basically I'm through with it...with the book I mean haha. I try to establish a meditation routine, doing either some body med. (mindful movement+body scan) or thoughts med. (body and breath+sounds and thoughts) daily in addition to either the exploring difficulty or loving kindness med. and the breathing spaces if needed....I tend to forget to make them, firstly because i don't think of them but also because (a little bit) I see them as duty and maybe also because I rather want to dwell on my thoughts rather than welcoming them...I have lived (and failed ::) many years with that technique and unconditioning it is quite difficult i guess ...so it could be better but could be worse as well I think because I put aside some time and in some areas, for example when I am feeling stressed, I recognize this and mindfully engage with them so it becomes less stressful, but hopefully I can expand this ability...

JonW
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Posts: 2897
Practice Mindfulness Since: 08 Dec 2012
Location: In a field, somewhere

Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:33 am  

"I rather want to dwell on my thoughts rather than welcoming them."

Well, so long as that works for you.
Jon
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MiM
Posts: 122
Practice Mindfulness Since: 0- 5-2015

Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:04 am  

JonW wrote:The cloud analogy works for some people but not others. So try not to worry about that. Other options include the cinema screen (mind) and the images flickering on the screen (thoughts); or the river (mind) carrying the leaves (thoughts) as it flows. Have you tried those?

I like to point out here that some people (according to study maybe 2-5% of the population) cannot visualize at all, or very little. The phenomena has a newly coined name "aphantasia". For those persons this kind of techniques does not work well or at all.

From what I read here this does not seem to be fabig:s problem, but I belong to this group. I cannot see a cloud, a cinema screen, a river or anything in my mind. So I am more or less stuck with just factually teaching myself that "my thoughts are only thoughts, not facts" and keeping repeating that over and over again. Luckily it works fairly well for me, and as I am aware of this limitation of mine, I am able to recognize practices that have no chances to work for me then try to build my own techniques instead. But I have had this awareness less than a year, and there are lots of non-visualizers (aphantasiacs) out there who do not have this awareness, and subsequently will struggle needlessly with trying visualizing techniques, that simply cannot work well for them.

So if possible, try to find some non-visualizing examples along with the visualizing ones.
Stands at the sea, wonders at wondering: I a universe of atoms, an atom in the universe.
-Richard Feynman-

JonW
Team Member
Posts: 2897
Practice Mindfulness Since: 08 Dec 2012
Location: In a field, somewhere

Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:17 am  

"I like to point out here that some people (according to study maybe 2-5% of the population) cannot visualize at all, or very little. The phenomena has a newly coined name "aphantasia". For those persons this kind of techniques does not work well or at all."

From a teaching point of view, that's very useful to know, thanks.
During 8-week groups I have noticed a few people struggling with this kind of imagery.
Cheers,
Jon
Jon leads the Everyday Mindfulness group meditation on Zoom every Monday/Friday, 6pm London-time. FREE.
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Peter
Site Admin
Posts: 696
Practice Mindfulness Since: 19 Aug 2013
Location: The Netherlands

Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:38 am  

MiM Wrote: I like to point out here that some people (according to study maybe 2-5% of the population) cannot visualize at all, or very little.

I didn't know that MiM, thanks for pointing that out!
Peter

fabiG
Posts: 41
Practice Mindfulness Since: 01 Jan 2016

Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:09 am  

JonW wrote:"I rather want to dwell on my thoughts rather than welcoming them."

Well, so long as that works for you.
Jon


Well, I know that it doesn't work that is because I'm here...and as I said it is not that it isn't working. I used to become so stressed with university and everything that I had to do throughout the day and since I'm practicing mindfulness since January it has become much more better, which is nice! I really feel composed and can handle with this stress much more adequately. For me I think it's just about expanding this :)

Thanks for the information regarding the visualization of thoughts!

JonW
Team Member
Posts: 2897
Practice Mindfulness Since: 08 Dec 2012
Location: In a field, somewhere

Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:12 am  

I think I know what you mean.
You're able to dwell on thoughts without them becoming unduly troubling? Is that it?
Cheers,
Jon
Jon leads the Everyday Mindfulness group meditation on Zoom every Monday/Friday, 6pm London-time. FREE.
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