Something happened during my body scan, today.
When I got to my forehead a ripple of anxiety washed over me and a strong thought hovered. It took me by surprise.
I acknowledged it, both the emotion and the thought, and looked at it....it disappeared!
Has anyone else had this kind of experience?
The body scan
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Has anyone else had this kind of experience?
Really, the experiences of other people don't matter.
Try to trust and validate your own experience. It's the one that's important.
And a quote from Jon Kabat-Zinn, on the bodyscan:
"The body scan is not for everybody, and it is not always the meditation of choice even for those who love it."
I'd like to second that view. Too often we try to get other people to do the meditations that work for us. In my opinion, this is a bit like insisting that someone enjoy a song or genre of music that they just don't like.
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"Too often we try to get other people to do the meditations that work for us. In my opinion, this is a bit like insisting that someone enjoy a song or genre of music that they just don't like."
Well, this thread is for new practitioners. I'm not sure about the music comparison. I can't imagine any teacher of the 8-week course saying, in respect of home practice, "Just do whatever you like." It's not really like choosing between One Direction and the Sex Pistols.
Jon Kabat-Zinn also says, in respect of home practice, "You don't have to enjoy it. Just do it."
I feel its important to point out to people why the body scan and mindful movement are integral parts of the 8-week course. Remove those from the course and you're left with thoughts. Mindfulness is not just about relating differently to one's thoughts. It's equally about the body. It's about wholeness after all. Isn't it?
All best wishes,
Jon
Well, this thread is for new practitioners. I'm not sure about the music comparison. I can't imagine any teacher of the 8-week course saying, in respect of home practice, "Just do whatever you like." It's not really like choosing between One Direction and the Sex Pistols.
Jon Kabat-Zinn also says, in respect of home practice, "You don't have to enjoy it. Just do it."
I feel its important to point out to people why the body scan and mindful movement are integral parts of the 8-week course. Remove those from the course and you're left with thoughts. Mindfulness is not just about relating differently to one's thoughts. It's equally about the body. It's about wholeness after all. Isn't it?
All best wishes,
Jon
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I agree with, Jon!
If we start telling 'beginners' that the body scan isn't for everybody, almost nobody will give it a real chance. If one hates it, all the more reason to do it. Although I would then recommend to ground oneself first with something else (like the breath).
By the way, I often meditate on music and sounds that I absolute hate. It provokes a lot to be with and examine.
Jon Kabat-Zinn said: "The body scan is not for everybody, and it is not always the meditation of choice even for those who love it. But it is extremely useful and good to know about and practice from time to time, whatever your circumstances or condition."
Peter
If we start telling 'beginners' that the body scan isn't for everybody, almost nobody will give it a real chance. If one hates it, all the more reason to do it. Although I would then recommend to ground oneself first with something else (like the breath).
By the way, I often meditate on music and sounds that I absolute hate. It provokes a lot to be with and examine.
Jon Kabat-Zinn said: "The body scan is not for everybody, and it is not always the meditation of choice even for those who love it. But it is extremely useful and good to know about and practice from time to time, whatever your circumstances or condition."
Peter
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Well, this thread is for new practitioners. I'm not sure about the music comparison.
Fair enough. Let's try another analogy. Say meditation is like medication. Someone with a medical background might say: "Just take your medication. You don't have to enjoy it - but it is good for you!" But the good doctor also knows that some people are allergic to certain medicines, or just have bad reactions to them. And any doctor knows that people stop taking their medication if they don't like it, or it's too much effort. In these cases, some other solution may need to be found.
I feel its important to point out to people why the body scan and mindful movement are integral parts of the 8-week course. Remove those from the course and you're left with thoughts. Mindfulness is not just about relating differently to one's thoughts. It's equally about the body. It's about wholeness after all. Isn't it?
The bodyscan and mindful movement are integral to MBSR based practices; but they are by no means integral to meditation or mindfulness in a broader or general sense. There are literally hundreds, if not thousands of alternative techniques and approaches — all of which have their particular benefits, their pros and cons and their usefulness for specific individuals. Traditionally, mindfulness of the body is just the first of the 'four foundations of mindfulness'. In that respect you might say it's good for beginners. But it's just the fist in a list, and the list could be rewritten in any order. Of course, the body certainly does appreciate getting some attention, and most people's bodies could do with a bit more.
But bypassing the bodyscan doesn't necessarily mean that someone will be 'just relating differently to one's thoughts'. They could tune into sounds, feelings, emotions, moods, mental states, the breath, a mantra (yes, you can repeat a mantra mindfully), actions and behaviors, movements (walking, talking, exercising, swimming, eating) and so on, and on. And they might gradually come around to the bodyscan, at a later time; a time appropriate for them.
And yes, I would agree that meditation is about wholeness. As a general rule, I believe a balanced, or whole meditation practice, is one in which you would give approximately equal attention to the body / breath, emotions, thoughts, moods and other sensory experiences (in other words, everything!)
I've replied at length because I really do believe this is a very important point. I've seen way too many people give up (or torture themselves in some way) because they thought they 'had' to do a meditation practice which wasn't right for them. A little bit of flexibility and freedom can make all the difference between someone struggling and someone thriving in their meditation practice.
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"If one hates it, all the more reason to do it."
Ha! I can imagine some of the reactions to that.
This is a good debate and an important one, I feel.
It would be interesting to get views on the body scan from those currently doing the 8-week course or starting out in some other way.
I'm as guilty as anyone of shrugging off the body scan as if it was an optional extra. It was only during my teacher training that the penny dropped, when I began to see that awareness of body sensations was just as important as awareness of thoughts.
After completing an 8-week course or after a couple of months of mindfulness practice, most people will fall into a self-customised practice that may or may not include the body scan or mindful movement. My earlier comments are directed at new practitioners rather than experienced meditators. My feeling is that during the first eight weeks or at least on that first learning curve it is important to stick to the program, as it were. If someone decides after doing one body scan that it's boring and not for them, what are they really learning about coming up against resistance?
Interestingly, the body scan takes a bit of a back seat in the Finding Peace In A Frantic World course. Danny Penman doesn't appear to be a big fan of it. My preferred approach, in teaching terms, is The Green Book (Segal, Williams, Teasdale). As such I would introduce a 30-minute body scan during week one.
Talking of body scans, it's high time I did one. But first, a dog walk along the beach. The sun has got its hat on here in Hove. It's a fine day for nude sunbathing.
Jon
Ha! I can imagine some of the reactions to that.
This is a good debate and an important one, I feel.
It would be interesting to get views on the body scan from those currently doing the 8-week course or starting out in some other way.
I'm as guilty as anyone of shrugging off the body scan as if it was an optional extra. It was only during my teacher training that the penny dropped, when I began to see that awareness of body sensations was just as important as awareness of thoughts.
After completing an 8-week course or after a couple of months of mindfulness practice, most people will fall into a self-customised practice that may or may not include the body scan or mindful movement. My earlier comments are directed at new practitioners rather than experienced meditators. My feeling is that during the first eight weeks or at least on that first learning curve it is important to stick to the program, as it were. If someone decides after doing one body scan that it's boring and not for them, what are they really learning about coming up against resistance?
Interestingly, the body scan takes a bit of a back seat in the Finding Peace In A Frantic World course. Danny Penman doesn't appear to be a big fan of it. My preferred approach, in teaching terms, is The Green Book (Segal, Williams, Teasdale). As such I would introduce a 30-minute body scan during week one.
Talking of body scans, it's high time I did one. But first, a dog walk along the beach. The sun has got its hat on here in Hove. It's a fine day for nude sunbathing.
Jon
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I bet you hate that nude sunbathing Jon!
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"I bet you hate that nude sunbathing Jon!"
Not half as much as the passers-by.
JW
Not half as much as the passers-by.
JW
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Let's try another analogy. Say meditation is like medication. Someone with a medical background might say: "Just take your medication. You don't have to enjoy it - but it is good for you!" But the good doctor also knows that some people are allergic to certain medicines, or just have bad reactions to them. And any doctor knows that people stop taking their medication if they don't like it, or it's too much effort. In these cases, some other solution may need to be found.
Or sometimes it is absolutely necessary to take the medication, whether one likes it or not. Or sometimes it takes a while for patients to 'get used' to the medication, and they just need to get through it (like with anti-depressants).
I really feel that the body is probably the most important part of mindfulness for most beginners, because they are often most disconnected from it, and because the body reacts so beautifully to what's going on in the mind, and is much more accessible. Not only does the body scan promote acceptance, but it also fine tunes and calibrates our body-awareness.
I think it would be a better approach to ask these 'beginners' what they don't like about it, and work with that. Coach them, help them understand, and maybe make adjustments (eg less frequent, less long, skip some body parts etc).
Peter
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"Or sometimes it is absolutely necessary to take the medication, whether one likes it or not."
Except when the medicine is Dutch rock music, though I'll always make an exception for Johan "The Wizard" Cruyff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-8pxAJRGRs
Every one a toe-tapper.
Except when the medicine is Dutch rock music, though I'll always make an exception for Johan "The Wizard" Cruyff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-8pxAJRGRs
Every one a toe-tapper.
Jon leads the Everyday Mindfulness group meditation on Zoom every Monday/Friday, 6pm London-time. FREE.
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