Working with anxiety

[iamcornelius]

Hello all,

First I would like to thank the founders of this great website.
Your efforts are deeply appreciated!

Please allow me to introduce myself and my journey so far.

I've always been a anxious person. Al little bit obsessive too.
During my pre-college period this wasn't a huge problem: I never did my best, so it didn't matter if anxious feelings were influencing my performance.
During my college period I became a true perfectionist: An A wasn't good enough. It should be an A+ in my opinion.

At that time the anxiety did kick in. Constantly I was walking the fine line between
exhaustion and performance.

When I got a full-time job my anxiety was still there. And after a while I couldn't sleep plus OCD kicked in. These obsessive thoughts made me go crazy. Since then I'm on Paxil and Remeron.

The years after the anxiety sometimes was silenced, but also sometimes kicked back in my face. Regular CBT didn't work for me as I'm always ruminating about the thoughts itself.

Two years ago I did a Mindfulness course which wasn't a success. The teacher didn't seem that experienced and my lack of insights regarding the stress/fear response made me feel much more anxious afterwards then before.

Exit mindfulness then?

One year ago I started with CBT again. This time with an open minded counselor.
She encouraged me to use my own bag of tools to cope with my anxiety.

After a few books regarding Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, I came on the path of mindfulness again.

I'm currently a Headspace subscriber and I must say it suits me well.
Nevertheless there are some really bad days.

One of my problems is that I can't let go of anxious feelings and my thoughts about long term damage "stress" does. I just can't welcome the anxious feelings because of that.

So, instead of doing mindfulness, I keep ruminating about the thoughts and feelings. Just can't let go and sometimes thus I can't perform at work.

Could someone give me some feedback or tips?

Kind regards!

[jdandre]

One of my problems is that I can't let go of anxious feelings and my thoughts about long term damage "stress" does. I just can't welcome the anxious feelings because of that.

When you say "welcome," what do you mean? You don't need to welcome them - I point this out because you may judge yourself too harshly for what you think you should be doing.

side note: judging ourselves is a common problem in mindfulness and meditation (as in life)...the mind loves to make us question our efforts, results, and everything else. "You aren't doing it right," "It doesn't work for you," "You should be doing this instead."

Instead of welcoming, just approach everything from a neutral standpoint - with equanimity. It is what it is, and your awareness allows you to see its temporary nature. You don't have to believe your mind when it tries to make everything urgent, critical, and permanent. You can watch it all come, and watch it all go (like clouds floating across the sky).

I also want to point out what you said in regard to stress: "I can't let go of anxious feelings and my thoughts about long term damage "stress" does."

You realize you are worrying about worrying at this point, right? You are having thoughts and feelings about the stress - which results from thoughts and feelings - and you are worrying about something that might happen in the future as a result. Have you ever read Tolle's "The Power of Now"? If not, I highly recommend it. He talks about these types of thought loops, as well as worries, problems, and the mind dragging you out of the present moment.

As far as "letting go," I'll take a shot at this - it really resonates with some people, and for some it doesn't:

Pick up a pencil and hold it in your hand with your arm extended out. Drop it.

Now, pick up a pencil and hold it in your hand with your arm extended out. Try to drop it.

Is there any difference in the end result? The point is, stop trying to let go of all of it and, instead, just let go of all of it. I know that's easier said than done, but realize your mind is what's making it more difficult than it has to be!

And again, don't judge yourself. We all face these same challenges to some extent.

[FeeHutch]

Hello and welcome to our community.

Worrying about worrying I can relate too certainly. The quote in my signature sums up my feelings pretty well and you are certainly not alone in your experiences.

Settle in and have a good read through the forum and the blog if you haven't already and I look forward to getting to know you.

[iamcornelius]

Wow, thank you very much for your replies and insights!
Really appreciate it!

I'm at my work now (I live in The Netherlands), so I will reply to them in depth asap.

Kind regards!

[Gareth]

No! I am Cornelius. Sorry - couldn't resist.

You say that you can't let go of certain thoughts and feelings. The good news is that you don't have to. Just allow them to be, examine them with openness and curiosity. You will find that they go of their own accord.

No thought or feeling lasts forever.

[iamcornelius]

Hi Gareth,

Thanks for your advice!

At this time I'm really, really having a bad day.

I seem to be tossed between CBT-excercises and mindfulness.
What's wrong with reassuring myself that I'm safe and my thoughts are based on an overactive pre-historic brain?

Can't I combine the two?

My head is racing like a Formula 1 race driver on alcohol. Just can't focus on work!
Is this common when starting (again) with mindfulness?

[JonW]

Hi iamcornelius,
Welcome to the forum. Great to have you on board here.
It sounds to me that you'd benefit from a MBCT course with a qualified teacher.
I'm no expert in this area but I'd suppose that trying to combine mindfulness and CBT exercises would be confusing and counter-productive. The MBCT course incorporates elements of CBT but, essentially, is not that different from a MBSR course. More info on this thread: http://www.everyday-mindfulness.org/for ... f=3&t=3792
Having said that, others on the forum might be far better qualified to comment on this.
All best,
Jon

[iamcornelius]

Hello all... thanks for your replies!

To be honest: The last week was horrible for me. Everything I learned about anxiety, the stress response, the amygdala, seemed gone.

I really hated mindfulness for this. But now I'm more or less stabile. Ready to give it another try.

The problem is that while doing mindfulness, my underlying -subconcious- anxiety seems to grow. On the other hand: when I challenge my thoughts, the underlying anxiety is also there.

This paradox is so damn difficult.

I guess pure mindfulness isn't my thing and pure CBT isn't also my cup of tea.

I seemed to respond well to the ACT-method. Combining mindfulness with acceptance. One of the tools is defusion.

Does anyone have some tips, best practices, defusion methods?

Kind regards!

[jdandre]

I'm sorry to hear about your challenges. I know it doesn't do much good when you are caught in the moment, but it will pass. Nothing is permanent, but your mind will try to convince you that it is, which makes everything a thousand times worse. If you remember nothing else when you are in the middle of turmoil, remember this.

In regard to this statement: "The problem is that while doing mindfulness, my underlying -subconcious- anxiety seems to grow." Consider this: it doesn't grow - it is what it is, because your mind is compulsive and it's always going. What changes is that you are putting focused attention on it, so it appears to grow. That's why a lot of people who start meditating say that practicing makes them think more. It doesn't, it just brings attention and awareness to what is already happening.

The other comment I want to make is in regard to your overall approach. You are trying to learn, and you are continually searching for solutions. I don't fault you for this - we all do it. But learning and searching won't address your problems, because knowledge doesn't equal understanding and practice. You run the risk of "analysis-paralysis" and information overload...you study so much, and consider so many options, that you aren't able to focus on any one thing for an extended amount of time and give it the chance to work (you go from this to that to that to that).

Again, I'm not faulting you - we all do this. But, reading back through your posts, it appears you've done mindfulness a few times, CBT, ACT, Headspace, etc. My advice is strip everything away, and focus on understanding how your mind works and building a consistent practice.

Stop trying to "defuse," stop worrying about worrying, stop trying to "let go" - just be. When you meditate, focus on your anchor (breath/mantra), and when you notice that your attention has wandered and you're aware of thoughts, gently return it to your anchor. Don't judge, don't analyze, don't try to block, don't interact with the mental activity at all once you become aware of it...just return your attention to your anchor.

Do this over and over because you are developing a skill - the skill of noticing your thoughts/emotions/urges/etc. without getting caught up in them. Developing a skill takes time, so you have to be consistent and you have to keep doing it. Notice and return - over and over and over again.

As you develop this skill while you meditate, you can start transferring it to your "non-meditation" time. Instead of your anchor being the breath or a mantra, it's the present moment and whatever task is at hand. You become aware of your mind pulling you away, and you return. This is how you start chipping away at those conditioned paths (from thought to emotion to action/reaction) that exist right now.

[James123]

I'm sorry to hear about your challenges. I know it doesn't do much good when you are caught in the moment, but it will pass. Nothing is permanent, but your mind will try to convince you that it is, which makes everything a thousand times worse. If you remember nothing else when you are in the middle of turmoil, remember this.

In regard to this statement: "The problem is that while doing mindfulness, my underlying -subconcious- anxiety seems to grow." Consider this: it doesn't grow - it is what it is, because your mind is compulsive and it's always going. What changes is that you are putting focused attention on it, so it appears to grow. That's why a lot of people who start meditating say that practicing makes them think more. It doesn't, it just brings attention and awareness to what is already happening.

The other comment I want to make is in regard to your overall approach. You are trying to learn, and you are continually searching for solutions. I don't fault you for this - we all do it. But learning and searching won't address your problems, because knowledge doesn't equal understanding and practice. You run the risk of "analysis-paralysis" and information overload...you study so much, and consider so many options, that you aren't able to focus on any one thing for an extended amount of time and give it the chance to work (you go from this to that to that to that).

Again, I'm not faulting you - we all do this. But, reading back through your posts, it appears that you've done mindfulness a few times, CBT, ACT, Headspace, etc. My advice is strip everything away, and focus on understanding how your mind works and building a consistent practice.

Stop trying to "defuse," stop worrying about worrying, stop trying to "let go" - just be. When you meditate, focus on your anchor (breath/mantra), and when you become aware that your mind has wandered - that you are thinking - gently return your focus to your anchor. Don't judge, don't analyze, don't try to block, don't interact with the mental activity at all once you become aware of it...just return to your anchor.

Do this over and over because you are developing a skill - the skill of observing your thoughts/emotions/urges/etc. without getting caught up in them. Developing a skill takes time, so you have to be consistent and you have to keep doing it. Observe and return, observe and return, observe and return. Over and over and over again.

As you develop this skill while you meditate, you can start transferring it to your "non-meditation" time. Instead of your anchor being the breath or a mantra, it's the present moment and whatever task is at hand. You become aware of your mind pulling you away, and you return. This is how you start chipping away at those conditioned paths (from thought to emotion to action/reaction) that exist right now.

What a brilliant post. Thanks for that. I like the OP tend to confuse things and try to do too much.

It tool me a long long time to learn that in most things in life, it pays to keep it simple.