Everyday Mindfulness

I have met and practiced mindfulness with Buddhists from various traditions. I began my own formal meditation practice with a Japanse Soto Zen group in the UK and have been on a 3-day retreat with them. I have spent a week in Plum Village in France with Vietnamese Zen teacher Thich Nhat Hanh's Sangha. I have attended Tibetan Vajrayana groups, such as Shambhala and Dzogchen tradition. I have sat and talked for one day a week with a Senior Dharma teacher in a traditional Chan tradition here in Beijing for many months. I have spent many weeks attending weekly meetups with a Chinese 'Mind Only' Buddhism layperson discussion group, and have attended an open day at their monastery and temple here in Beijing. I discussed Buddhism with Buddhists from all schools on the massive 'E-Sangha' forum for many years before it was cyber-attacked and closed down, and have discussed Zen Buddhism on other forums since. All the people I encountered were very nice, on the most part.

HOWEVER, there have been a number of areas of concern which, although I just accepted and left to eccentricity and cultural framing over the years, frustrated me and eventually made me take refuge in MBSR. Before anyone practicing MBSR fully embraces traditional Buddhism, they should, in my opinion, ask themselves the following questions:

* How will you practice reducing your stress if you are walking around in constant fear of an unfavourable rebirth?
* How is the idea of 'gaining merit' for a favourable future rebirth helping one to remain in the present moment where stress-busting takes place?
* How is that past life personality that you are so proud of going to allow you to transcend your notion of a separate ego-driven 'self' which causes so much stress in your life?
* How will you be able to walk in later years if you believe one can only sit in meditation on the floor while very likely giving your knees, ankles and hips hypermobility - i.e. additional stress on the body?
* How is believing in the possibility of 'mind-to-mind' psychic transmission or any other supernatural phenomena like Chi/Qi going to simplify your understanding of the already very complex systems at play in your life, and thus reduce your stress?

There are probably more questions to add to this, but it's a good start. This is not to say that Buddhism does not have anything to offer MBSR practitioners, it is just that as soon as one considers oneself a Buddhist, then it opens the door to some serious time-wasting; arguing about all these traditionally accepted yet ambiguous mystical practices and ideas. That time could probably be better used helping people with their clinically tested and proven MBSR practice which follows the same philosophical and yogic principles as Buddhism (and Daoism! ), but without all the extra apparently unnecessary stuff.

BioSattva, you have some very strong opinions, which of course is your right. Please, be courteous about laying out arguements as to why this or that way is "bullsh*t". We are all here to support one another, whatever our philosophical, religious, or cultural background.

Peace,
ZD

ZenDoe wrote:Please, be courteous about laying out arguements as to why this or that way is "bullsh*t". We are all here to support one another, whatever our philosophical, religious, or cultural background.

Peace,
ZD

Apologies ZenDoe, it seems that was an emotional 'burp' bubbling up from various past interactions. Point taken. It was more in the vein of Jon Kabat-Zinns use:

And the world and everybody and every thing becomes your teacher. And not in any grandiose new age bullshit kind of way -- just obvious. Basic.

I have edited my OP for more courtesy. If you have alternative reasoning I will be happy to read and politely discuss any of it with you.

Peace,
BS (...and those are my initials )

Thank you both for dealing with that so respectfully.
This is a very interesting subject. I'm not feeling so well tonight and so don't feel I can focus adequately tonight but I will return to it later.

No probs, FeeHutch .

Another good question to add to the list:

* How are you going to hold on to your take on Buddhism when someone better at translating Sanskrit and Pali than you comes along and tells you that you don't understand the original written teachings and undermines whatever positive mindfulness practice you have in place?

This one has been a classic situation on Buddhism forums - the source of no end of upset, arguments, and generally bad feelings. Such translators hold so much power, and for some reason most of them I have met tend to disagree and seem to consider their core Buddhist practice one of translating teachings rather than testing and living the teachings. So toxic!

What an interesting post!

In my humble view many religions have a core of wisdom but then other factors get added to the mix (superstition/social control/money etc) and the only safe thing for the baffled novice to do is hold on tight to your common sense. I'm guessing that the scientific basis of mindfulness as espoused by JKZ reassures many. If I'm not mistaken he is a molecular biologist by profession so not a new age nut.

stopitaggers wrote:What an interesting post!

In my humble view many religions have a core of wisdom but then other factors get added to the mix (superstition/social control/money etc) and the only safe thing for the baffled novice to do is hold on tight to your common sense. I'm guessing that the scientific basis of mindfulness as espoused by JKZ reassures many. If I'm not mistaken he is a molecular biologist by profession so not a new age nut.

This is why secular Buddhism caught my attention. After a childhood of punishment and the expectation of blind faith, the idea of believing that which was testable and tangible seemed to make more sense.
The idea that there wasn't strict rules in mindfulness, punishment for failure or a hierarchy in which some of us are deemed more or less important just feels right to me.

I'm reading a lot of Toni Packer at the moment. A truly remarkable writer.
Those are the same reasons why she walked away from life in a Zen monastery and set up her own meditation centre, Springwater, where there are no rules as such and where she deliberately blurred the line between teacher and student. Thus she has been described as "a Zen teacher minus the Zen and minus the teacher."
A remarkable woman. Hugely inspirational. I'd highly recommend any of her books but might single out The Light Of Discovery as the ideal starting point.

JonW wrote:I'm reading a lot of Toni Packer at the moment. A truly remarkable writer.
Those are the same reasons why she walked away from life in a Zen monastery and set up her own meditation centre, Springwater, where there are no rules as such and where she deliberately blurred the line between teacher and student. Thus she has been described as "a Zen teacher minus the Zen and minus the teacher."
A remarkable woman. Hugely inspirational. I'd highly recommend any of her books but might single out The Light Of Discovery as the ideal starting point.

Sounds interesting... - another one to add to my waiting list. Dunno when I'm going to get round to reading all these...

Me either Bio, if I may address you as such?
I have a huge pile of text books, a huge pile of mindfulness books and a huge pile of music, fiction and other books, MP3s and a couple of magazines awaiting my attention. Not to mention what is on my kindle.
My plan for this week is to cut out any TV I've not planned to watch in advance and try and make some inroads