Why is it that people stop meditating?

[HeeelMooi]

Apologies for not reading the entire thread.

The reason to stop meditating is that it defeats its own purpose in the end. The goal is to quiet ones mind, or to put an end to becoming, yet the very act of meditation has the intent of becoming silent and hence creates thoughts by itself.

You stop meditating when you see that there is no way not to meditate. So technically you don't stop, you just don't feel the need to sit down any-more.

[JonW]

"The goal is to quiet ones mind, or to put an end to becoming, yet the very act of meditation has the intent of becoming silent and hence creates thoughts by itself."

Hi HeeelMooi. Welcome to the forum.
I'm not sure what form of meditation you're referring to, but the goal of mindfulness is not to quieten the mind or put an end to becoming (whatever that means). A quieter mind might well be a by-product of regular mindfulness practice but, with respect, to say it's a goal is to miss the point by a good few furlongs.
Jon, Hove

[jdandre]

the goal of mindfulness is not to quieten the mind or put an end to becoming (whatever that means). A quieter mind might well be a by-product of regular mindfulness practice but, with respect, to say it's a goal is to miss the point by a good few furlongs.
Jon, Hove

Indeed - this is the most common misconception out there, and it's why the majority of people give up ("My mind is too busy to meditate!", "Meditating doesn't work for me - I can't stop my thoughts.")

As you said, it can be a "by-product." I like to tell people mindfulness and meditating help you learn not to get caught up in thoughts and other mind-made activity...so whether your mind is quiet or not, it doesn't really matter.

"Thoughts arise in consciousness - to control your thoughts would mean you would have to think them before you think them." - Sam Harris

[JonW]

Spot on, Monsieur Andre, as ever. Marvellous.
I like the quote from Suryacitta in the interview I've just posted on the main site:
"If we’re compassionate towards ourselves it’s as though a welcoming space opens up around us – including stuff we may not like. Clearly, this is not about having a nice, relaxing time on the cushion. Whether a meditation is pleasant or not, that’s irrelevant. Relaxation might be a consequence of regular meditation practice but it’s not the aim. The idea is to foster a willingness to face our experience in the moment."
The Other Jon, Hove

[HeeelMooi]

Thanks for the welcome It's nice to be here; it has been a while since I've discussed practice with anyone.

The point I'm making if that if you sit down with the idea of not getting caught up in thoughts, you are caught up in that thought. If you sit down to face life's experience in the moment then that is the thought you are caught up in.

Of course I have no way of knowing that, perhaps you are not caught up in these thoughts, but it just seems that way when you talk about this subject due to the inherent relativity of words.

But I can see that seeing that seeking any kind of benefit has an inherent rejection in it and thus causes suffering, which causes some one to even stop meditating and just experience life as it comes without changing it at all. Perhaps one would find themselves still meditating while just experiencing life though

I still do meditate myself.

[jdandre]

I believe most people on these boards agree not to enter the practice with expectations of specific benefits - in fact, I just made a post on another thread about that.

It is, however, important to clarify what mindfulness and meditation are, and what they are not. To that end, I communicate that it's cultivating awareness of your compulsive mind and it's non-stop activity, and learning not to to indulge thought, emotions, urges, etc. - instead of indulging them, you return your attention to an anchor (breath, mantra) if meditating and the present moment/task at hand if being mindful.

Having said that, a person has to have motivation to come to meditation in the first place. And people come for various reasons: to improve focus, help deal with depression and anxiety, learn to deal with the voice in their head, and on and on. There's nothing wrong with that initial motivation, but those benefits - as noted earlier by Jon - are side-effects of the practice: they come when you cultivate awareness and learn not to get caught up in the activity your mind produces.

What's important is consistent, daily practice - and transferring what you learn (develop/cultivate) during that daily practice to your "non-practice" time.

Best wishes to you!

[JonW]

"It is, however, important to clarify what mindfulness and meditation are, and what they are not. To that end, I communicate that it's cultivating awareness of your compulsive mind and it's non-stop activity, and learning not to to indulge thought, emotions, urges, etc. - instead of indulging them, you return your attention to an anchor (breath, mantra) if meditating and the present moment/task at hand if being mindful."

That's brilliant. I must remember to originate it sometime.
All good things your way too, squire.
Jon

[jdandre]

Spot on, Monsieur Andre, as ever. Marvellous.
I like the quote from Suryacitta in the interview I've just posted on the main site:

I've got to check the main site more often - that was wonderful. Tweeting it and posting it on Facebook later today.

[JonW]

Most excellent. Thank you, Jon.
May all your roosters lay eggs.
Other Jon

[HeeelMooi]

That is very nicely said. There are always two levels to the dialectic of the 'ultimate' / Tao you would find in the diamond sutra and daily life. E.g. there is no motivation to meditate, but in daily life there may be many (e.g. deal with emotions, the monkey mind, etc). Or you should no expect benefits, but still one sits down to deal with ones emotions or deal with anxieties.

So I agree with the fact that consistent practice is important, but you must have seen at some point, that if you really look, it is hard to distinguish normal life from practice, in that everything, even the worst emotion filled moments, the moments of great unclarity are still just expressions of life. You may then say, I need to practice to get rid of my emotions, but that is when your practice may become a war against your emotions. But yes then we come back to the fact that you say meditation should not have a motivation or an expected benefit. And then when we end up there, it must not be so hard to understand that a lot of people say 'why practice, if there is no benefit'.

And that is a paradox that will never be resolved, as we're looking at it from a perspective that there is someone who decides to meditate. In reality there may not be and it may just be life expressing itself and that is why you meditate and there is no choice of yours involved in it at all.

Do let me know if this is not the type of discussion you'd like to have here. If you want to discuss the more practical facets of practice then I understand of course.