Hello folks
I'm new here so I thought I'd post to say hello. I am in recovery from severe childhood trauma and a dissociative disorder, and have recently realised that my long term meditation practice has really been a long term dissociation practice! So I'm starting afresh and am really encouraged by what I'm discovering. I'm working with a free online MBSR course and the MBSR Workbook at the moment. Things got a bit rough but then I discovered some gems of wisdom on Jim Hopper's mindfulness pages that helped me learn how to deal with it when too much sensation comes up all at once, which I'm finding happening at times with the body scan.
I had a huge breakthrough this morning which I'm very excited about. I have long woken with my heart rate elevated and pain in my body, and past attempts to be mindful and in my body have just escalated anxiety. Now with fresh understanding and practice of mindfulness, this morning when it happened I was able to actually do a body scan. It took lots of times continually bringing my attention back to the body part, as my attention was so scattered it would barely touch in to the part and race off again, but I did it - over a period of about 30 minutes my body actually relaxed and my attention become more focused. This is very cool for someone who learnt to dissociate at the drop of a hat and for whom all past attempts at a body scan in that state have been given up due to escalating anxiety! :0)
Another big thing for me has been that I've discovered through mindful check-ins throughout the day that my body is almost always poised ready for a quick getaway - even when I'm sitting in the car! It's helped me to understand why parts of me still feel unsafe and I'm hopeful that will change as mindfulness gives me the opportunity to relax my body each time I become aware that I'm poised ready for escape.
Thanks for the opportunity to join you here and share. I really appreciate it.
Betty
Mindfulness and Dissociation
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betty.etal
- Posts: 40
Hi Betty
Sounds like you're doing really well
Awesome!
A lot of people use mindfulness to dissociate. I used to as well. I have suffered from a severe anxiety disorder and I used to try to put all my negative experience in a box and observe it out of existence. We both know that doesn't work though
I thought you might like this poem from Rumi:
THE GUEST HOUSE
This being human is a guest house.
Every morning a new arrival.
A joy, a depression, a meanness,
some momentary awareness comes
as an unexpected visitor.
Welcome and entertain them all!
Even if they are a crowd of sorrows,
who violently sweep your house
empty of its furniture,
still, treat each guest honorably.
He may be clearing you out
for some new delight.
The dark thought, the shame, the malice.
meet them at the door laughing and invite them in.
Be grateful for whatever comes.
because each has been sent
as a guide from beyond.
Also, a huge part in my softening towards myself and my experience has been combining my mindfulness practice with lovingkindness (another meditative practice with roots in the Buddhist tradition). The two are highly complimentary. If you're interested there is no better place to start than Sharon Salzberg's Lovingkindness: The Revolutionary Art of Happiness. This book is an absolute gem. I cannot recommend its value highly enough!
Keep us updated
Alex
Sounds like you're doing really well
Awesome!A lot of people use mindfulness to dissociate. I used to as well. I have suffered from a severe anxiety disorder and I used to try to put all my negative experience in a box and observe it out of existence. We both know that doesn't work though
I thought you might like this poem from Rumi:
THE GUEST HOUSE
This being human is a guest house.
Every morning a new arrival.
A joy, a depression, a meanness,
some momentary awareness comes
as an unexpected visitor.
Welcome and entertain them all!
Even if they are a crowd of sorrows,
who violently sweep your house
empty of its furniture,
still, treat each guest honorably.
He may be clearing you out
for some new delight.
The dark thought, the shame, the malice.
meet them at the door laughing and invite them in.
Be grateful for whatever comes.
because each has been sent
as a guide from beyond.
Also, a huge part in my softening towards myself and my experience has been combining my mindfulness practice with lovingkindness (another meditative practice with roots in the Buddhist tradition). The two are highly complimentary. If you're interested there is no better place to start than Sharon Salzberg's Lovingkindness: The Revolutionary Art of Happiness. This book is an absolute gem. I cannot recommend its value highly enough!
Keep us updated
Alex
God himself culminates in the present moment, and will never be more divine in the lapse of all the ages - Henry David Thoreau, Walden: or, Life in the Woods
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betty.etal
- Posts: 40
Alex
I love that poem and it keeps coming my way so I guess I still haven't learnt to live it yet. :0)
Thank you so much for the pointer back to metta - I have Sharon's book somewhere and would be very timely to re-read it. I am basically starting again, having realised that I was living in so much denial of my past (unconsciously as it's all buried under amnesia and I've only become aware of it through flashbacks etc) that I wasn't really able to embrace any of the practices seriously. I feel really good to be starting again afresh - that's what it's all about in each moment anyway isn't it. :0)
Betty
I love that poem and it keeps coming my way so I guess I still haven't learnt to live it yet. :0)
Thank you so much for the pointer back to metta - I have Sharon's book somewhere and would be very timely to re-read it. I am basically starting again, having realised that I was living in so much denial of my past (unconsciously as it's all buried under amnesia and I've only become aware of it through flashbacks etc) that I wasn't really able to embrace any of the practices seriously. I feel really good to be starting again afresh - that's what it's all about in each moment anyway isn't it. :0)
Betty
That's great you feel so ready to take things on
I think it is worth pointing out, though, that you needn't expose yourself to too much trauma with undue care. I imagine if some particularly difficult stuff comes up the road could get pretty rocky. You wouldn't want to re-traumatise yourself Mindfulness is a tool to be used appropriately and within a larger arsenal of tools (is it an arsenal of tools? More like a shed).
What I am trying to say is that sometimes it is skilful and valuable not to be mindful. I also think that if you have a lot of difficult stuff arising, it might be worth seeing a professional to talk some of this stuff through (if you're not already seeing someone). Getting help is never a sign of weakness, on the contrary it can take huge strength
Alex
I think it is worth pointing out, though, that you needn't expose yourself to too much trauma with undue care. I imagine if some particularly difficult stuff comes up the road could get pretty rocky. You wouldn't want to re-traumatise yourself
Mindfulness is a tool to be used appropriately and within a larger arsenal of tools (is it an arsenal of tools? More like a shed). What I am trying to say is that sometimes it is skilful and valuable not to be mindful. I also think that if you have a lot of difficult stuff arising, it might be worth seeing a professional to talk some of this stuff through (if you're not already seeing someone). Getting help is never a sign of weakness, on the contrary it can take huge strength
Alex
God himself culminates in the present moment, and will never be more divine in the lapse of all the ages - Henry David Thoreau, Walden: or, Life in the Woods
Oh also I have just remembered that on www.audiodharma.org I have come across guided meditations for skilful recollection. I've never used them myself, but you might find them valuable.
Alex
Alex
God himself culminates in the present moment, and will never be more divine in the lapse of all the ages - Henry David Thoreau, Walden: or, Life in the Woods
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betty.etal
- Posts: 40
Alex
I really appreciate you taking the time to reply and help. Thank you. :0)
I've given up on professionals, after 10 attempts at therapy I think the universe is telling me to work on my own. I'm in a very small percentage of people in terms of severity of dissociation and nobody in the area I live in knows how to deal with it. I've tried working with so called trauma experts and local people and in each case it's made the dissociation much worse. I'm more stable working on my own, so that's what I'm doing.
I read a great article by a meditation teacher on healing trauma yesterday and she said the same thing as you - be wary of pushing through and too much mindfulness, take it in smaller doses. I'm fortunate to have other tools in my toolkit, including an energy pyschology tool which makes life a lot easier when things do arise - ways of clearing the memories without having to sit through all the feelings. I think that combining mindfulness with the energy pyschology tools will make life a lot easier.
I will check out that link you gave me, thank you.
I had another big success this morning thanks to mindfulness. Some mornings I wake with such intense pain down my leg that I'm screaming out for it to stop. This morning I felt it start and focused on my breathing and stayed mindful and it didn't get as bad as it usually does or last as long. In the past I've always reacted out of fear (screaming for it to stop), today I responded with mindfulness, and wow, what a difference.
Betty
I really appreciate you taking the time to reply and help. Thank you. :0)
I've given up on professionals, after 10 attempts at therapy I think the universe is telling me to work on my own. I'm in a very small percentage of people in terms of severity of dissociation and nobody in the area I live in knows how to deal with it. I've tried working with so called trauma experts and local people and in each case it's made the dissociation much worse. I'm more stable working on my own, so that's what I'm doing.
I read a great article by a meditation teacher on healing trauma yesterday and she said the same thing as you - be wary of pushing through and too much mindfulness, take it in smaller doses. I'm fortunate to have other tools in my toolkit, including an energy pyschology tool which makes life a lot easier when things do arise - ways of clearing the memories without having to sit through all the feelings. I think that combining mindfulness with the energy pyschology tools will make life a lot easier.
I will check out that link you gave me, thank you.
I had another big success this morning thanks to mindfulness. Some mornings I wake with such intense pain down my leg that I'm screaming out for it to stop. This morning I felt it start and focused on my breathing and stayed mindful and it didn't get as bad as it usually does or last as long. In the past I've always reacted out of fear (screaming for it to stop), today I responded with mindfulness, and wow, what a difference.
Betty
Well done for managing your pain so well Is it your theory that your pain syndrome is linked to trauma?
I have just come across this talk on Trauma by my absolute favourite teacher Jack Kornfield. He has just such a fantastic way with words. I have not listened to this one particularly but thought it might of relevance to you:
http://dharmaseed.org/teacher/85/talk/17446/
Alex
Is it your theory that your pain syndrome is linked to trauma? I have just come across this talk on Trauma by my absolute favourite teacher Jack Kornfield. He has just such a fantastic way with words. I have not listened to this one particularly but thought it might of relevance to you:
http://dharmaseed.org/teacher/85/talk/17446/
Alex
God himself culminates in the present moment, and will never be more divine in the lapse of all the ages - Henry David Thoreau, Walden: or, Life in the Woods
-
betty.etal
- Posts: 40
Alex
Thank you so much for that link, I will listen to it as soon as I get a chance. I love Jack Kornfield's teaching, his "A Path with Heart" resonated so strongly with me many, many years ago. There is so little on mindfulness and trauma that I really appreciate hearing about what there is. Thank you.
Yes it's now certain that the pain is linked to the trauma. I've had a lot of unexplained pain over the years, which due to heavy amnesia of childhood I didn't connect with trauma. Mindfulness is really helping me to see that it's when certain things from the past are triggered that the pain comes. And there is often a lot on waking, my dreams are still pretty hard.
I give thanks every day for mindfulness helping me to get closer to leaving the past behind and truly being able to live in the now. The body scan has been so hard, but is paying off. Last night I was in hyperarousal when I went to bed and I couldn't sleep. Eventually I realised a body scan was in order, and although it took many, many times with my attention wandering after a second, I eventually settled into my body and my system must have relaxed and I drifted off to sleep. Mindfulness is cool. :0)
Betty
Thank you so much for that link, I will listen to it as soon as I get a chance. I love Jack Kornfield's teaching, his "A Path with Heart" resonated so strongly with me many, many years ago. There is so little on mindfulness and trauma that I really appreciate hearing about what there is. Thank you.
Yes it's now certain that the pain is linked to the trauma. I've had a lot of unexplained pain over the years, which due to heavy amnesia of childhood I didn't connect with trauma. Mindfulness is really helping me to see that it's when certain things from the past are triggered that the pain comes. And there is often a lot on waking, my dreams are still pretty hard.
I give thanks every day for mindfulness helping me to get closer to leaving the past behind and truly being able to live in the now. The body scan has been so hard, but is paying off. Last night I was in hyperarousal when I went to bed and I couldn't sleep. Eventually I realised a body scan was in order, and although it took many, many times with my attention wandering after a second, I eventually settled into my body and my system must have relaxed and I drifted off to sleep. Mindfulness is cool. :0)
Betty
Yeah Jack Kornfield is really great. He is just simply the most entrancing speaker I have ever heard. The way he tells stories and articulates concepts is really something special. He is also an experienced psychotherapist so I guess he is offering his teaching from that angle in addition to his decades of experience as a teacher of Buddhism. He is truly an expert of the human condition.
I suffer from M.E., which is on the same spectrum (though at the opposite end) as many unexplained pain syndromes. The reason I say this is because your mention of hyper-arousal is certainly reminiscent of what I am currently experiencing.
I am doing something called the Gupta Programme to address my M.E. It is essentially works on the principle that the amygdala is in a constant state of the alert which has something of a cascade effect on other bodily processes. The idea of the programme is to calm the amygdala so the body can heal. I have found the programme to be very helpful and, though I am currently more ill than ever due to my own stupidity, I am confident that it will ultimately deliver me to full health. I mention this in case you want to check it out too. I think a number of people working the programme have PTSD. I have also been told it can work wonders with dissociation (I sometimes suffer mild derealisation). Anyway, just a thought
Alex
I suffer from M.E., which is on the same spectrum (though at the opposite end) as many unexplained pain syndromes. The reason I say this is because your mention of hyper-arousal is certainly reminiscent of what I am currently experiencing.
I am doing something called the Gupta Programme to address my M.E. It is essentially works on the principle that the amygdala is in a constant state of the alert which has something of a cascade effect on other bodily processes. The idea of the programme is to calm the amygdala so the body can heal. I have found the programme to be very helpful and, though I am currently more ill than ever due to my own stupidity, I am confident that it will ultimately deliver me to full health. I mention this in case you want to check it out too. I think a number of people working the programme have PTSD. I have also been told it can work wonders with dissociation (I sometimes suffer mild derealisation). Anyway, just a thought
Alex
God himself culminates in the present moment, and will never be more divine in the lapse of all the ages - Henry David Thoreau, Walden: or, Life in the Woods
-
betty.etal
- Posts: 40
Alex
I never worked with the Gupta Programme but did look into it at one stage. I had ME for a long time but have been free of it for many years thankfully. I healed using energy methods.
Are you mindful of how you might be judging yourself with what you said: "I am currently more ill than ever due to my own stupidity"?
From the research I've done it seems most with ME have an over-active amygdala, and learning how to calm it down is very important. Mindfulness has an important place, but needs to be alongside of compassion otherwise it can set the amygdala off more. I don't know if you saw the post I put on Geiko's thread - I listened to an amazing talk by Tara Brach on Meditation and Healing Trauma yesterday which you might want to check out if you haven't, she has some great stuff on how to bring compassion and self forgiveness in to assist with mindfulness. If you want to check it out, go to http://www.tarabrach.com/audioarchives2010.html then scroll down to find 03/31/2010 Guided Meditation and Healing Trauma.
If I can be of assistance at all sharing my journey with ME off the board, feel free to message me since it's off topic, I'm happy to share if it could help at all.
Remember to be kind to yourself.
Betty
I never worked with the Gupta Programme but did look into it at one stage. I had ME for a long time but have been free of it for many years thankfully. I healed using energy methods.
Are you mindful of how you might be judging yourself with what you said: "I am currently more ill than ever due to my own stupidity"?
From the research I've done it seems most with ME have an over-active amygdala, and learning how to calm it down is very important. Mindfulness has an important place, but needs to be alongside of compassion otherwise it can set the amygdala off more. I don't know if you saw the post I put on Geiko's thread - I listened to an amazing talk by Tara Brach on Meditation and Healing Trauma yesterday which you might want to check out if you haven't, she has some great stuff on how to bring compassion and self forgiveness in to assist with mindfulness. If you want to check it out, go to http://www.tarabrach.com/audioarchives2010.html then scroll down to find 03/31/2010 Guided Meditation and Healing Trauma.
If I can be of assistance at all sharing my journey with ME off the board, feel free to message me since it's off topic, I'm happy to share if it could help at all.
Remember to be kind to yourself.
Betty
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