Hello and Thanks

[stacheman101]

I've been reading the posts on this forum for a few months, and finally decided to join. It's great to hear about, and learn from, other people's experiences. The references to additional links, articles, books, teachers, etc. is very valuable as well. I'm a long-time on-again off-again meditator, and have landed somewhere between mindfulness/secular Buddhism and the Ordinary Mind teachings of Joko Beck and Ezra Bayda. I think Mark Williams is brilliant, by the by. Anyway, thought I'd "de-lurk," say hi, say thanks, and join the fun. Jeff

[JonW]

Hi there stacheman,
Welcome to the forum. Please feel free to make yourself at home and ask any questions that are making your brain itch.
I'm a fellow Joko Beck/Ezra Bayda devotee. Wonderful thinkers, both.
Hope to see you around.
Cheers, Jon

[Cheesus]

'De-lurk' I like it.

I haven't heard of these guys. I may have to check them out!

[FeeHutch]

I also like de-lurk both as a word and an action
I am glad you have found the community here helpful so far stacheman and I look forward to getting to know you better.
Any other lurkers wishing to de-lurk please say hi too if you feel able

[JonW]

Charlotte Joko Beck, Ezra Bayda, Toni Packer, Joan Tollifson...not writing about mindfulness as such, more on the Zen/non-duality tip, but highly recommended to those who wish to explore those areas.

[Cheesus]

Charlotte Joko Beck, Ezra Bayda, Toni Packer, Joan Tollifson...not writing about mindfulness as such, more on the Zen/non-duality tip, but highly recommended to those who wish to explore those areas.

Thanks Jon I'll add these guys to my list of things I need to check out!

[LucidMind]

Welcome! I would recommend Jon Kabat-Zinn as well, he really pushes at the medical/empirical aspects of mindfulness.

[Gareth]

I'm really glad that there are people reading the topics who aren't actually posting. That means even more people are getting benefits from these topics.

[stacheman101]

One of the reasons Joko Beck and Ezra Bayda's Original Mind Zen appeal to me deeply is that, as one finds in vipassana (Theravadin) traditions, the emphasis is on open awareness and not the single-pointed concentrative practices often cultivated in Zen. Open awareness seems much healthier both emotionally and spiritually to me. But as in classical Zen, there is mention made in Beck of original nature. Maybe this is just my hang up, but the vipassana traditions talk much more about no-self, and I need, at least at this stage in my practice, the grounding of "original nature" as something positive and substantive. The whole no-self thing seems almost nihilistic to me. When I start reading about no-self in Buddhism, I realize it's very complex and beyond me. Nonetheless it turns me off. At the same time, Original Mind Zen is in general so shorn of Buddhist terminology that it feels almost secular....which keeps it fresh and accessible. I hope my ramblings made some sense.

[BioSattva]

When I start reading about no-self in Buddhism, I realize it's very complex and beyond me. Nonetheless it turns me off.

I had similar experiences but I think it depends how non-self is framed. Thich Nhat Hanh puts it in the best way for me to understand - he often uses a flower as an example - the flower cannot exist without the sun, the clouds, the soil, atmosphere, solar system, universe, and in this way we say the flower does not have any individual 'self nature' - the flower is a seamless part of the universe and is therefore 'one with the universe' - it is empty of flower and full of everything else. Humans can view themselves in a similar way - or view their non-self in a similar way, however for it truly to have value in our lives we need to feel this connection, not just paste it onto our experiences as some conceptual nicety.

I would also posit that 'open awareness' is a kind of single-point awareness anchored in the field of awareness in general. I don't think it is so different, it is just a different anchor for attention. MBSR mindfulness guided meditations can start out with a one point focus on the breath and expand the awareness out to the body and it's sensations and then the environment, even to the whole universe. Some people find it easier to start with the breath and then expand outwards from that so that their focus can be maintained in a sharp way.