Mindfulness and smoking

[Kath]

Aha - that'a alot clearer . . . . . and I see what you mean. I think I mentioned previously in the post that it is the mind that is addicted to smoking . . . . but I certainly don't underestimate the hold the mind has over you, even if you can sometimes distance yourself from it for a while. Again, I think I mentioned the whole attachment thing - I am working on trying to be no more attached to my mind thinking about wanting a cigarette than it is to hearing a car go by . . . . . .

This is a really good reply and certainly gives me alot to contemplate on. I read the Alan Carr book over and over, wanting so much to experience the moment of clarity you describe. I know it's possible, but it eluded me. As you say, mindfulness has helped me see things alot more clearly - maybe that moment isn't too far away now Thank you again

[JonW]

To my mind, there is an important difference between being mindful of the urge to smoke and "being mindful of one's stupidity". The latter involves self-judgment. There's no getting around that.

[Kath]

Maybe the issue here is a semantic one - we're using a judgemental word 'stupidity' when perhaps we should be using a non-judgemental word for an inescapable fat that smoking is harmful. So, it may be congruent with self-acceptance to notice that we are about to embark on a damaging behaviour - ie: smoking a cigarette, and realise that we are doing it for no valid reason. I think this is what Alan Carr describes - that addiction and our own brainwashing leads us to believe we get some benefit from smoking, when this is an illusion and there is no benefit from smoking.

OK, so doing something that causes harm while providing no good could be described as stupid, to call it such would be self-judgemental. However, as you say Jonw, there is no getting away from the fact that it is harmful.

So, maybe we could resolve the argument by redefining the behaviour - rather than stupid, calling it damaging. This is non-judgemental and factual.

Do you think that would help our debate?

To a smoker it is far from stupid to smoke a cigarette, but none would argue that it isn't harmful.

[JonW]

Perfectly explained, Kath.
Thank you.
The difference is important, I feel. If self-compassion is mislaid, mindfulness can easily become another goal-oriented aspect of our lives, rather than a way of being.
The debate about smoking can be applied to many other areas of our lives. Including relationships. If one is in an unhealthy or abusive relationship, telling yourself that you are stupid to remain in it will only chip away further at the self-esteem. Whereas what might be needed is the presence of mind to see what is actually going on, to see clearly what is needed, even if that simply involves walking away.
Now where's my nicotine gum?
Jon, Hove

[nnikolic]

To my mind, there is an important difference between being mindful of the urge to smoke and "being mindful of one's stupidity". The latter involves self-judgment. There's no getting around that.

Hi Jon, I will quote how Eckhart Tolle describes humans : "Humans are intelligent, but if you look at history or even watch TV, they're also incredibly stupid."

http://www.ecomall.com/greenshopping/eckharttolle.htm

Jon Kabat-Zinn on TV news: "You can miss six weeks of the news, and it’s like almost any six weeks of the news will replace any other six weeks. The same maniacs are saying the same stupid things over and over again"

http://blogs.kqed.org/newsfix/2011/12/23/interview-jon-kabat-zinn-gives-advice-for-unhappy-news-junkies-audio-guided-meditation/

It is not really a secret even for authorities on mindfulness. Do not think too much if you are self-judging or not, because it is another form of judgment. What is needed is clear thinking.

By clear thinking both Eckhart and Jon came to the judgement of "stupid" when talking about people.

best regards
Nenad

[JonW]

Yes, but I am talking about self-judgment in the context of addiction or relationship difficulties. Kabat-Zinn is talking about the idiocy of news. Both Tolle and mindfulness draw on similar sources but Tolle's teachings are more a distillation of non-duality than mindfulness though, of course, there are overlaps. Essentially Tolle is saying that there is no self. Therefore, ultimately, there would be no self to be mindful.
Best,
Jon

[nnikolic]

I have wrote my blog post about quitting smoking. I hope you will find it helpful!

http://mindfulness-today.blogspot.de/2014/07/how-to-mindfully-stop-smoking.html

[piedwagtail91]

"So, maybe we could resolve the argument by redefining the behaviour - rather than stupid, calling it damaging. This is non-judgemental and factual.

Do you think that would help our debate?

To a smoker it is far from stupid to smoke a cigarette, but none would argue that it isn't harmful."

works for me!

[nnikolic]

"So, maybe we could resolve the argument by redefining the behaviour - rather than stupid, calling it damaging. This is non-judgemental and factual.

Do you think that would help our debate?

To a smoker it is far from stupid to smoke a cigarette, but none would argue that it isn't harmful."

Of course, it would be best for everyone to decide how they want to define it.

I believe that word "judgement" is also questionable. How could we define it?
works for me!

[JonW]

I think it's quite clear what "judgment" means in terms of mindfulness. It's passing a sentence on whether a situation or a type of behaviour is "right" or "wrong". e.g. "I don't seem to be getting anywhere with meditation - I must be doing it wrong." Rather than allowing it to be.
With reference to smoking, it might be considered more mindful for someone to say, "I feel like a cigarette. I acknowledge that the urge to light up is there. But I'm choosing not to reach for a fag."
It would be a whole lot less mindful to say, "I'm really stupid for wanting to smoke," which, I suspect, will only serve to reinforce one's sense of weakness and low self-esteem.
Jon