Just imagining the feeling of breath?

[LucidMind]

Hello all!

So, I have been practicing meditation over the past few months by noticing the sensation of breath on and around my nostrils. By "sensation" i am referring to the tactile and physical feeling of the breath running in and out of my nose. I have had the following issue since day one, and I haven't been able to find the answer anywhere! I'm really hoping somebody can shed light on this issue (or at least empathize with me!).

Sometimes I feel the breath in my nose and around my nostrils very acutely and it's easy for me to concentrate my attention there. However, sometimes it is VERY hard for me to find the feeling of breath in my nostrils. The actual tactile sensations of the breath disappear! When this happens, I try to concentrate harder and find some feeling/sensation of breath, although sometimes the feeling is sooo soft and subtle I don't know if I am focusing on my actual breath or I am just imagining the breath! Is it okay to focus on the feelings of breath going in and out of your nostrils...even if the feeling is imagined (because the actual breath is so light it's undetectable??). I apologize if my question is convoluted, please let me know and I will try to elucidate. I am really looking forward to hearing any advice or shared experiences!

[BioSattva]

In my experience it's the breath in general that is the focus in these practices - from nostrils right down to the belly, and real tangible sensations are required. One old mindfulness teacher said: "Do not create illusion". We are practicing accepting 'what is', and working with allowing the habitual behaviour of imposing ideas upon reality to dissolve.

Becoming aware of the breath is what is important - not where the breath is located.

I like the nostril focus because it means one can remain 'in the beighbourhood' of the thoracic diaphragm and be less likely to try and interfere with the muscular process - allowing one to 'ride' the automatic breathing process more successfully. Once one gets competent at that, then the attention can move further inwards and towards the belly. Some people start off with the belly straight away, however.

[rara]

Yeeeeah...can't actually see an issue in anything you just said. You've just identified how your body adapts differently to any different day...so I wouldn't worry about that ad just continue to observe whatever is going on!

By "trying to concentrate harder", yes, you are in danger of creating illusion or forcing something upon yourself.

Just accept and let go. You will probably end up getting the sensation back naturally that way anyway.

Chiiiiiiilll

PS, Take me to Cali!

[LucidMind]

Yeeeeah...can't actually see an issue in anything you just said. You've just identified how your body adapts differently to any different day...so I wouldn't worry about that ad just continue to observe whatever is going on!

By "trying to concentrate harder", yes, you are in danger of creating illusion or forcing something upon yourself.

Just accept and let go. You will probably end up getting the sensation back naturally that way anyway.

Chiiiiiiilll

PS, Take me to Cali!

Hi Rara! Thanks for your reply and advice...chilling out is definitely hard for me to do sometimes but I will give it my best shot I have to keep in mind the "acceptance and letting go" aspects of formal practice!

Why would anybody want to come to California?? The beach is 5 minutes away from me and it's been 70 degrees all week (eerrrg...that's Fahrenheit, i'll let you do the conversion math )

[LucidMind]

In my experience it's the breath in general that is the focus in these practices - from nostrils right down to the belly, and real tangible sensations are required. One old mindfulness teacher said: "Do not create illusion". We are practicing accepting 'what is', and working with allowing the habitual behaviour of imposing ideas upon reality to dissolve.

Becoming aware of the breath is what is important - not where the breath is located.

I like the nostril focus because it means one can remain 'in the beighbourhood' of the thoracic diaphragm and be less likely to try and interfere with the muscular process - allowing one to 'ride' the automatic breathing process more successfully. Once one gets competent at that, then the attention can move further inwards and towards the belly. Some people start off with the belly straight away, however.

Thanks BioSattva, I'm pretty sure I am feeling the actual breath, my thoughts always turn to "you aren't doing this right"...something i'm becoming more "mindful" of by the day! And you're right, I need to just keep my awareness on the breath...not so much where it is located.

[BioSattva]

my thoughts always turn to "you aren't doing this right"...something i'm becoming more "mindful" of by the day!

Yes this still comes up for me too - I have a bit of a perfectionist complex. I have to remind myself of the following, gleaned from various teachers over the years, and which I feel I have verified to be true in my own practice:

• If you were 'doing it right', you wouldn't be doing the practice at all, you would just 'be' and thus you would be a different person than you are at the moment. There's no point trying to be someone else (an enlightened Buddha, for example) - that will only end in more problems.
• 'Doing it right' ('it' meaning the practice) requires us to be doing it wrong and accepting that. Strangely enough, when we get out of the way and stop evaluating, we find that it is easy to accept our wrongness.... and then suddenly we are doing it right! And then we try to copy what we were doing right before like an actor acting out some scene, and then we are doing it wrong again, and we have to go back to the start and let go of our memory of what we did 'right' - that scene we experienced and want to come alive again.
• The only active 'doing' during basic mindfulness practice is literally the returning of one's attention to one feature (i.e. the breath) of the present moment, and limiting judgemental thoughts, and simply not doing anything else (this is too easy so we often try to do something extra!).
• Allowing the body to 'surf' the stillness allows tension in the mind (clingy and chastising thoughts which bubble up) and body to dissipate of it's own accord - no effort needed. Just like our immune system and organs - we don't need to actively control them, we can just sit back and let them do their work. So effortless, as long as we can limit judging thoughts and mind-wandering - and eventually this 'skill' becomes more like second nature - like riding a bicycle.
• Once one can ride a bicycle, it still doesn't mean one does it right all the time - especially if one begins to take one's bicycle off the roads and onto more bumpy terrain - one has wobbly moments, of course, but one remains on the bicycle and doesn't crash or jump off as often (i.e. one doesn't stop practicing the formal mindfulness and get up as much).

I hope any of that helped!

[LucidMind]

my thoughts always turn to "you aren't doing this right"...something i'm becoming more "mindful" of by the day!

Yes this still comes up for me too - I have a bit of a perfectionist complex. I have to remind myself of the following, gleaned from various teachers over the years, and which I feel I have verified to be true in my own practice:

• If you were 'doing it right', you wouldn't be doing the practice at all, you would just 'be' and thus you would be a different person than you are at the moment. There's no point trying to be someone else (an enlightened Buddha, for example) - that will only end in more problems.
• 'Doing it right' ('it' meaning the practice) requires us to be doing it wrong and accepting that. Strangely enough, when we get out of the way and stop evaluating, we find that it is easy to accept our wrongness.... and then suddenly we are doing it right! And then we try to copy what we were doing right before like an actor acting out some scene, and then we are doing it wrong again, and we have to go back to the start and let go of our memory of what we did 'right' - that scene we experienced and want to come alive again.
• The only active 'doing' during basic mindfulness practice is literally the returning of one's attention to one feature (i.e. the breath) of the present moment, and limiting judgemental thoughts, and simply not doing anything else (this is too easy so we often try to do something extra!).
• Allowing the body to 'surf' the stillness allows tension in the mind (clingy and chastising thoughts which bubble up) and body to dissipate of it's own accord - no effort needed. Just like our immune system and organs - we don't need to actively control them, we can just sit back and let them do their work. So effortless, as long as we can limit judging thoughts and mind-wandering - and eventually this 'skill' becomes more like second nature - like riding a bicycle.
• Once one can ride a bicycle, it still doesn't mean one does it right all the time - especially if one begins to take one's bicycle off the roads and onto more bumpy terrain - one has wobbly moments, of course, but one remains on the bicycle and doesn't crash or jump off as often (i.e. one doesn't stop practicing the formal mindfulness and get up as much).

I hope any of that helped!

Yes, that was extremely helpful, and I really appreciate you sharing. That really helps put it into perspective. I might just have to copy/paste your post for my future reference

[BioSattva]

Thanks. I surprised myself a little, actually. It even helped me with my seated practice this morning. The words "Doing it right is accepting doing it wrong" were very useful for me - I'm going to copyright that before anyone steals it as their slogan, heh . I think this sharing is a big part of how practice grows and deepens. Before this forum was created there was very little available in the world to allow for this kind of process.

I got most of what I said from JKZ in Full Catastrophe Living (2005), p143:

In the early stages of the sitting practice it is possible to be uncertain as to where to focus your attention when, and to worry inordinately about whether you are doing it "right." For the record, if your energy is continually going into patient self-observation from moment to moment, whether your attention is on the breathing or on other objects, and you are bringing it back each time it wanders without giving yourself a hard time, then you are doing it right. If you are looking for a special feeling to occur, whether it be relaxation or calmness or concentration, or insight, then you are trying to get somewhere else other than where you already are and you need to remind yourself to just be with the breath in the present. Paradoxically, as we have seen, this is the most effective way to "get somewhere" and to nurture relaxation, calmness, concentration, and insight. They will come by themselves in time if you keep up the daily discipline and practice according to these guidelines.