Compilsive thinking and learning /practising 'freestyle' as opposed to a 8 week course

[telly]

Good afternoon everyone; I shal try to be brief. I have a problem with compulsive thinking. I have had it since around the age of 7. It can be, for example I often 'need':

To remember things exactly how they were (ro at least feel that I have accomplished this)
To feel as though things I worry about definitely won't happen
When reading, to feel as though I have fully understood/remembered what I have just read
To imagine how I would feel if misfortunes/losses that people have suffered that are in the media would feel if this happened to me
Repeat the normal mind-wandering thinking that we all indulge in but volitionally and actively re- thinking the thoughts

I am hoping to use mindfulness to manage these things. So when these compulsive urges arise how should I deal with them?

And as for the 8 week courses: I hate yoga. I cannot tell you how much. It is a key component of the 8 week programmes. In addition, I find it easier to sit and watch the breath for a given amount of time than to follow instructions for, say the body scan meditations. I find it hard to zone in, as though I don't yet have the levels of concentration needed to accomplish this. When I have tried to follow such verbal instructions I'd say that I am only able to be present for about 20% of the time.

So can I learn and practice just from the books on classic mindfulness (Bhante G, Larry Rosenberg, etc) instead of an 8 weeker?

[Gareth]

I don't practise yoga. Not any more at least. I don't believe that it is essential to build a mindfulness practice. What most mindfulness teachers will teach you is that awareness of body is just as important as awareness of mind, but that awareness can be built in other ways apart from yoga. I have MS, and I can barely feel the lower half of my body and mindfulness still helps me. Massively so. I'm sure that there are 8wk courses that don't include yoga.

[JonW]

As a teacher I wouldn't say that mindful movement or light yoga is an essential part of an 8-week course. However, I would say that it's important for a course to include some element of 'meditation in motion'. If you have a strong aversion to yoga, then do some mindful walking.
If all we do is sit and watch the breath, then we are basically reducing mindfulness practice to awareness of thinking - noticing the mind has wandered and coming back to the breath. As Gareth rightly says (I've never known the man to be wrong!), awareness of the body is as important as awareness of thoughts. In my view, the body scan is indispensable to a good 8-week course. In body scans, we learn to come into the body when we are overwhelmed by thoughts and feelings.
When we scan through our body, there is no goal as such. We are not looking for anything special to occur. We are not looking to change anything. We are simply paying attention to the sensations that are arising and falling away from moment to moment. In this way, we are able to rest in awareness. One way of thinking about it is that we are grounding ourselves in our bodies. With practice, we learn to check in on our bodies regularly and listen to the messages it is sending us. To my mind, this is a hugely important element of mindfulness practice.
No harm in choosing a course which doesn't contain the exercises you have a strong aversion to, but I'd say it's worth considering why those aversions are there in the first place and whether it might be beneficial to explore that resistance.
Best wishes,
Jon

[rochakmehrotra]

Namaste telly,

One thing as a daily practice that helps me is chanting/bhajans. I have been doing this for around 4 years everyday.
In that I have to sit in a place , preferably the same place everyday and the same time, if I am at home ,and in a comfortable position , rest of conditions are all flexible chair,mat,clothes, bath no bath etc
Close my eyes and chant/sing bhajans, this usually is for around 25-30 mins
Everyday I sit I have a different feeling when i get to sit down and do this.
and then as the thoughts keep coming about various things..I offer those thoughts to my Guru , its like a internal offering.
and again keep coming back internally to singing/chanting.
Once i have completed this sitting , I open my eyes after sometime and feel whatever feeling comes.
Mostly would feel some kind of gentle calmness and little moistness in eyes. This brings peace to me.
You may try this way and see for yourself.Give it 8 to 12 weeks time and then see what occurs to you.
Be intentional and do it for your own self.
Namaste.
Rochak Mehrotra

[telly]

Thank you all for your wisdom and input!

Gareth - I hope there are 8 week courses without yoga. I am a bit odd in that if I don't know what to do and when I can get sidetracked. Like, "Hmm, I only have 15 minutes to meditate now, it's not worth it. I'll get back on track tomorrow," type thoughts. So a structure to establish a habit would do me good.

JonW - I am looking at mindfule walking as per your suggestion. I try to do this whenever I walk but as Jon Kabat-Zinn says (or along these lines) 'Half the battle is remembering to be mindful'. I shall endeavour. If you feel that the body scan is THAT important then what I might do, if I don't find a yoga-free 8 week course, is to build concentration for a month, maybe 2, by watching the breath then try to follow a guided body scan or just do it myself. I think the latter might be better for me because I have found that, with guided meditations, the voice is something else to drift off into thought about, trying to place the accent, r whatever!

As for the resistance to yoga, I havent really thought about it before now. I find it hard to stay focused - even harder than guided meditations. I know we shouldn't strive for progeression as we just be but I always feel at the end of a yoga session, "Well, that was a waste of time. I would have been better-off doing a straight meditation session.

I know this is judgement and that I should beware of buying-in to the automatic judgements the mind generates, but it does resonate as something I do believe rather than the judging mind just doing its thing. In addition I find it uncomfortable, physically. I know we are meant to push the comfort zone in our yoga but I try to exercise daily too. It as if my motivation to do something which is physically discomforting but worthwhile is finite and I'd rather point it in the durection of exercise.

Rochak - this is all new to me, but I will look into it and give it a go! It sounds like a great way to build concentration and to allow the mind settle of its own accord, thanks.

In addition, what can I do with the compusive thinking? I get the OVERWHELMING desire to thing things through until they feel 'right'. It is OCD and has been diagnosed as such. How can I bring mindfulness to this? I guess it would be:

1. Be aware of the strong impulse to think or acknowledge the thoughts that you have had so far if you are already going down the route
2. Be aware of emotions and feelings in the body
3. Continue with what needs to be done in the external world/what you are doing at that time with awareness, and with continued awareness of thoughts, feelings and sensations

Have I missed anything out?

Thanks again, all.

[JonW]

Hi Telly,
It would be great to get a blog out of you, describing some of the hurdles you've encountered in practice. Please let me know if that's something that would interest you. I'm the blog editor around these parts. Our blogs appear on the main page of our site.
As for walking meditation, I always encourage my students/clients to approach a mindful walk just as they'd approach a body scan. Slowly scanning the body as they walk, tuning in to sensations as they do so, noticing when the mind has wandered, returning to the sensations. Many people find this much easier than the traditional lying-down body scan.
As for the compulsive thoughts, I'd say it's a question of deciding what your anchor is going to be - the breath, body sensations, sounds etc. - and then return to the anchor whenever these persistent thoughts arise. Noticing and returning. Again and again. Alternatively, you might try observing the thought stream (the actual thinking process) without getting caught in the content of thoughts - allowing thoughts to come and go without getting hooked on them.
It would be interesting to hear how you get along.
All best,
Jon

[telly]

Yeah, I'll have a go at that, flattered to be asked, thanks. Just one thing - if you do run with what I write, can I be co,mpletely anonymous, not even a username attached?

How long do you want it to be? And do you want me to outline my OCD and difficulties presented by that as well as what I would call 'general' hindrances? And can I also give a brief critique of the mindulness materials I have encountered? (That might be a bit whiny, I haven't found many that I can unequivocally endorse! )