Honouring emotions whilst not being bossed around by them

[palla]

Good morning everyone, I have been trying mindfulness on and of for years but am now at a stage where I think I can commit to the practice.

I have read Headspace, Full Catastrophe Living and am currently on True Refuge by Brach (I like it but it is a bit too hippyish/lovey-dovey for me. But some very useful info).

Kabat-Zinn will tell you that when emotions arise, feel how they manifest in the body and the thoughts which accompany them, and return your attention to your everyday task or meditation anchor. He emphasises that you don't have to believe emotions are telling you the truth.

Brach says to feel emotions fully and to investigate them. She says that thoughts are 'real but not true' but doesn't say that emotions are not necessarily true, like Kabat-Zinn.

I am a bit confused by all of this.

I feel that Kabat-Zinn's position could lead to us 'avoiding' emotions we don't like by using our focus to block them out. But I also feel that Brach's investigation could lead to us fomenting emotions and keeping them alive.

I am also confused by her 'real but not true'. Does that mean that thoughts are NEVER true? Surely, this is not the way things are? They may not necessarily be true, but they sometimes are.

I am now confused as to how to feel emotions without perpetuating them, and when to trust (or not) the emotions and thoughts I have.

What is the middle-ground between the 2 extremes?

[Gareth]

I think that when strong emotions are at play, it's really beneficial to bring curiosity to the party. Explore the emotion both physically and mentally. How does it manifest in your body? Can you identify something in your life that is causing this emotion to arise? The answers are sometimes very hard to find of course, but with understanding comes power. You may have to sit with these questions and these emotions for a long time, but the answer is in there somewhere; I truly believe that.

I think that JKZ is right when he says that emotions may be based on something that we are believing that is not necessarily true i.e. the emotion is true but not necessarily the thoughts that might be underpinning it. I also agree with Brach when she says to feel emotions fully and to investigate the. I don't feel that the two positions are at odds with each other.

[MiM]

Hi Palla,

I also kind of like Tara Brach but completely agree about the hippiesh/lovey-dovey aspect.

For me it seems absolutely clear that our feelings often have little connection to what is true. They can give us important clues especially about ourselves and most certainly they often play a major role in our behavior, but they are generally not telling us the truth.

One recent personal example. Yesterday I made a spontaneous and happy comment to someone and didn't receive the kind of response I was expecting. Completely innocent, no big deal, -really-. But not according to my inner judge, who immediately attacked me with his sledgehammer: "You have made a major mistake", "you will be punished", "they will never talk to you again"...The judge left me in a devastated and almost panicky state, that hasn't left me completely even now.

Those feelings of smallness, abandon, devastation and panic might tell me hoards about my childhood and the general state of my mind right now, but they definitely do not correlate well to the situation that arose them and towards which they were projected. One interesting aspect is that I could see this clearly from the very beginning, but I still could not easily change the way the feelings manifested themselves.

So I guess I agree a lot with Gareth, curiosity and hard work might help you create understanding from your feelings, but the path to that understanding is seldom straightforward.

[palla]

I think that when strong emotions are at play, it's really beneficial to bring curiosity to the party. Explore the emotion both physically and mentally. How does it manifest in your body? Can you identify something in your life that is causing this emotion to arise? The answers are sometimes very hard to find of course, but with understanding comes power. You may have to sit with these questions and these emotions for a long time, but the answer is in there somewhere; I truly believe that.

I think that JKZ is right when he says that emotions may be based on something that we are believing that is not necessarily true i.e. the emotion is true but not necessarily the thoughts that might be underpinning it. I also agree with Brach when she says to feel emotions fully and to investigate the. I don't feel that the two positions are at odds with each other.

Hello Gareth, thanks for this insightful response.

I don't think they are contradictory as such: it's just that (and it is probably just me) that Kabat-Zinn's approach can lead to us not allowing emotions to express fully. I think Pema Chodron wrote about how we have to be careful that we are not avoiding experiencing unpleasant emotions by thinking, "This is just thinking."

I feel that Kabat-Zinn's 'Acknowledge the emotion's presence then return to your focus' approach could have a similar effect in that we quickly return to the focus without having the emotion fully expressed, in order to avoid it.

OTH, Brach's allows us to have emotions expressed but she doesn't tell us that they are not necessarily reflective of the reality that exists.

So I think the best would be to feel emotions fully as you describe, remind yourself that they are not necessarily reflective of reality (i.e. what is the truth) and take any appropriate action and/or return to focus.

Which then raises the question...How do we know what is the truth and when an emotion is based in truth, on a situation that is true?

I'm probably just overthinking it!

[palla]

Hi Palla,

I also kind of like Tara Brach but completely agree about the hippiesh/lovey-dovey aspect.

For me it seems absolutely clear that our feelings often have little connection to what is true. They can give us important clues especially about ourselves and most certainly they often play a major role in our behavior, but they are generally not telling us the truth.

One recent personal example. Yesterday I made a spontaneous and happy comment to someone and didn't receive the kind of response I was expecting. Completely innocent, no big deal, -really-. But not according to my inner judge, who immediately attacked me with his sledgehammer: "You have made a major mistake", "you will be punished", "they will never talk to you again"...The judge left me in a devastated and almost panicky state, that hasn't left me completely even now.

Those feelings of smallness, abandon, devastation and panic might tell me hoards about my childhood and the general state of my mind right now, but they definitely do not correlate well to the situation that arose them and towards which they were projected. One interesting aspect is that I could see this clearly from the very beginning, but I still could not easily change the way the feelings manifested themselves.

So I guess I agree a lot with Gareth, curiosity and hard work might help you create understanding from your feelings, but the path to that understanding is seldom straightforward.

Again, very wise and insightful, thanks!

[Mindsfull]

I think for example, someone learning to deal with panic attacks with mindfulness. It's possibly (or they believe) the most intense emotion they can feel, to the point they have to flee situations or avoid altogether.
I think people sitting with a panic attack may be the most profound effect one can have. But getting someone to keep doing so is the hard part I would say and I would say this is where the importance mentioned comes in. Either way I think intense emotions should be investigated through meditation. So firstly I wouldn't say just checking in and then getting on with our day is best. But I don't think this is solely what JKZ teaches and I'm not sure where but I'm sure he teaches us to be curious of powerful sensations whether emotion or physical pain.

Overall curiosity can be bought to intense sensations but doing it almost impossible at time in my opinion. I would be interested to hear how people have actually got through difficult emotions through the mentioned approaches.

[Peter]

One important aspect might also be the difference between MBSR and MBCT. JKZ teachings are MBSR. Which is a lot less about investigating the mind, and a lot more about actively reducing stress.

[JonW]

'I would be interested to hear how people have actually got through difficult emotions through the mentioned approaches.'

The key, for me, was finding a good teacher who helped to ground me in the practice.
Generally speaking, it's very difficult to get a good grounding in mindfulness from a book, though I know some people who have managed it.
I used to be anxious all the time and experienced my fair share of panic attacks back in the day. Anxiety very rarely arises these days. I put that down to a good grounding and continued daily practice, utilising a variety of meditations including sitting, body scans and walking meditation. Body scans are a hugely important part of my practice. It's easy to forget that mindfulness is as much about body awareness as awareness of thoughts.
All best,
Jon

[Peter]

I've come to learn that the most powerful way to deal with anxiety and panic is to not identify with it. If you identify with it, it gets stronger. But if you don't identify with it, it loses power, until it has none. The anxiety and panic may be there, it can be felt, but it is just something of the mind and body, it is not you, and it has no power over you.

Mindfulness and meditation can help with this change of perspective, but for me it also took thorough investigation of the mind and body, and contemplating reality itself.