Why is mindfulness so effective?

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LucidMind
Posts: 81
Location: California

Mon May 13, 2013 7:46 am  

When first discovering mindfulness, I came at it from a more scientific point of view. I read Jeffrey Brantly (MD) and Jon Kabat-Zinn (PhD), as well as researching many different empirical research studies done on the effectiveness of mindfulness (and yes, it has found to be very effective). However, lately I have been reading more Buddhist points of view on Mindfulness ( Thich Nhat Hanh and others), and I am getting a little confused about the intersection of mindfulness and Buddhism. For example, it seems like in Buddhism, you must believe in reincarnation (no-birth and no-death) to be truly free of fear and anxiety. However, mindfulness in the secular view doesn't delve into that at all. I wonder what specifically about the secular version of mindfulness (like MBSR and Jon Kabat-Zinn) works so well at reducing anxiety and worry, and enhancing life? I'd be really interested in hearing your opinions on why secular mindfulness is so effective!

JonW
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Posts: 2897
Practice Mindfulness Since: 08 Dec 2012
Location: In a field, somewhere

Mon May 13, 2013 8:35 am  

As I understand it, reincarnation is not part of Buddhist teaching.
When The Buddha talked about rebirth, he was referring to the self (the ego, the personality) being renewed with each moment. In other words, we are in a constant state of flux, as is everything else. Each moment is a new moment of life. He was not talking about returning to life as a frog, for instance.
Mindfulness is at the heart of Buddhist teaching but mindfulness is that teaching stripped down its essence. As Gil Fronsdal has written, "Mindfulness can be practiced without Buddhism, but Buddhism cannot be practiced without mindfulness." Effectively, what Jon Kabat-Zinn did in the late-70s was translate traditional Buddhist concepts into everyday language without dilution. It certainly helped that Kabat-Zinn was from a scientific background, meaning that mindfulness was accepted without too much resistance in the worlds of science and medicine.
It's the beautiful simplicity of mindfulness that works for me: by paying attention, on purpose and non-judgmentally, in the present moment, we free ourselves from the suffering imposed by the conditioned mind.
Jon leads the Everyday Mindfulness group meditation on Zoom every Monday/Friday, 6pm London-time. FREE.
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LucidMind
Posts: 81
Location: California

Mon May 13, 2013 7:54 pm  

Very interesting, thanks for the great reply JonW! Something i'll definitely have to mull over.

JonW
Team Member
Posts: 2897
Practice Mindfulness Since: 08 Dec 2012
Location: In a field, somewhere

Mon May 13, 2013 8:22 pm  

My pleasure.
Jon leads the Everyday Mindfulness group meditation on Zoom every Monday/Friday, 6pm London-time. FREE.
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BioSattva
Posts: 324
Location: Beijing, China

Tue May 14, 2013 2:51 am  

LucidMind wrote:For example, it seems like in Buddhism, you must believe in reincarnation (no-birth and no-death) to be truly free of fear and anxiety.

Many people consider the threat of rebirth - a kind of immortality fantasy, in my opinion - akin to one's soul 'cheating death' and being judged by God, as a motivator for being more moral. However, even though people may be motivated in this way, I believe that the constant fear of a bad rebirth or God's judgement after this present life ends actually keeps one in the grips of emotion, and thus cognitive distortions.

Fear isn't a motivator in my opinion - it is more of a "dis-ease", as JKZ may put it. Fearing the consequences of not getting to sleep on a restless night isn't going to help one get to sleep. Buddhists fearing a bad rebirth as a means to relax and conquer fear seems like an equally pointless exercise from where I'm standing, and so rebirth-believing Buddhists tread water while secular mindfulness practitioners make progress. In Sri Lanka and here in China, for example, most Buddhists don't practice mindfulness - why would they? All they are going to find is never-ending fear welling up inside them without a way out unless they drop the belief in rebirth - something which they consider impossible.

Interestingly enough, Buddhism was apparently sought and brought into China initially because of the promises of a kind of immortality. The ancient Qin Emperor of Terracotta Warriors fame was so powerful and self-obsessed that he sent investigators far and wide to find an immortality methodology - the elixir of life. Eventually he sided with eating mercury pills and the like - something which killed him prematurely at the age of 51. I love the moral that this story teaches.

It's worth noting that there are a few Buddhist teachers - Zen one's at that - who have dropped the old conceptions of rebirth (as preserved in the most ancient Buddhist pali scriptures) and have taught something more in line with the reinterpretation that JonW has mentioned - the Japanese Zen teacher Nishijima is one, for example (maybe you picked up that perspective from Brad Warner, Jon, since Warner is a student of Nishijima).

LucidMind wrote:I wonder what specifically about the secular version of mindfulness (like MBSR and Jon Kabat-Zinn) works so well at reducing anxiety and worry, and enhancing life? I'd be really interested in hearing your opinions on why secular mindfulness is so effective!

Facing the apparent more likely 'fact' that this life is the only one we have, I think MBSR practitioners tend to practice harder, because they see their time to enjoy their brief moments in this beautiful world as limited - that raisin really does need to be appreciated more within this framework, because once death comes, then there's no more raisins - now, and this short life, are the only moments we have to really live. Once this initial motivating factor gets one 'in the groove' so to speak, then the practice becomes more vibrant.

Zen Buddhism - which in my experience doesn't emphasise the rebirth teachings as much as the other schools of Buddhism, and again, uniquely often emphasises allowing onself to be gripped by a sense of calm urgency during practice - like a Samurai involved in a duel, or a starving cat crouched watching it's prey - that kind of focus and attention, anyway.

If one considers that one can practice once reborn in the next lifetime, or some other lifetime in the distant future, then why bother practicing so hard now? There's plenty of time to be in this beautiful world, so no hurry, and so attention and focus aren't so strong.

Those are my present reflections, anyway.
"Compassion – particularly for yourself – is of overwhelming importance." - Mark Williams, Mindfulness (2011), p117.
"...allow yourself to smile inwardly." - Jon Kabat-Zinn, Full Catastrophe Living (2005), p436.
Weekly Blog: http://mindfuldiscipline.blogspot.co.uk

JonW
Team Member
Posts: 2897
Practice Mindfulness Since: 08 Dec 2012
Location: In a field, somewhere

Tue May 14, 2013 8:45 pm  

"If one considers that one can practice once reborn in the next lifetime, or some other lifetime in the distant future, then why bother practicing so hard now?"

Maybe they're worried they'll return as an ant. And I don't mean Adam Ant. ;)
Jon leads the Everyday Mindfulness group meditation on Zoom every Monday/Friday, 6pm London-time. FREE.
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BioSattva
Posts: 324
Location: Beijing, China

Wed May 15, 2013 3:01 pm  

JonW wrote:Maybe they're worried they'll return as an ant. And I don't mean Adam Ant. ;)

There's nothing wrong with being an ant - don't be so formiphobic.

Being a rock could be pretty cool too - I don't know why the Buddhists don't just indulge in a bit of non-judgement when it comes to considering rebirth - break free of the inferiority and superiority complexes.
"Compassion – particularly for yourself – is of overwhelming importance." - Mark Williams, Mindfulness (2011), p117.
"...allow yourself to smile inwardly." - Jon Kabat-Zinn, Full Catastrophe Living (2005), p436.
Weekly Blog: http://mindfuldiscipline.blogspot.co.uk

JonW
Team Member
Posts: 2897
Practice Mindfulness Since: 08 Dec 2012
Location: In a field, somewhere

Wed May 15, 2013 4:06 pm  

Chris Rock is my favourite Rock, closely followed by Mick Rock the photographer.
People used to keep rocks as pets in the 70s, so they're not short of love and attention at times. Not sure how the rocks-as-pets craze took off though. It wouldn't happen these days what with Facebook and computer games to keep the young 'uns occupied.
Jon leads the Everyday Mindfulness group meditation on Zoom every Monday/Friday, 6pm London-time. FREE.
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FeeHutch
Posts: 1010
Practice Mindfulness Since: 01 Mar 2012
Location: Steel City
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Wed May 15, 2013 5:59 pm  

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pet_Rock
I am feeling retro, I might get me one since I'm not allowed a tortoise.....
“Being mindful means that we take in the present moment as it is rather than as we would like it to be.”
Mark Williams

http://adlibbed.blogspot.co.uk/p/mindfulness-me-enjoy-silence.html
Find me on twitter - @feehutch

GianKarlo
Posts: 47
Practice Mindfulness Since: 19 Jan 1985

Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:23 am  

I feel what it takes to be mindful in certain things that can build us constructively or even destroy us in the most unexpected way. Being mindful takes a great courage to continue such progression in initiating the mind.

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